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Old 11-05-2017, 08:15 PM   #1
pokerchris
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How Bad Did I play this hand?

Please criticize all streets! I will give my reasoning for each street, and please tell me why I am a moron.

Small blind 7-7

UTG, Next player, cut off and button limp.

I smooth call. Button smooth calls.

Standard? No reason to pop a raise here?

Flop comes 7-8-J. I lead, BB folds, UTG raises, next player re raises. Cut off and button fold. I flat the three bet.

Turn comes 8 (bringing two flush). I lead my full house, utg folds, next player raises. I flat. Think he either has a straight or J-8. Unlikely he has J-J as no preflop raise. Should I have 3 bet there or check raise the turn?

River, K of clubs, I check, he bets, I call, he turns over 9-10 of spades for the flopped straight.

How many bets did I lose, and was giving him potentially J-8 suited stupid thinking? I have been playing a lot of Omaha lately and kind of spooks you into fearing the under full.

So, decision points:

Thinking flatting 7's in the little blind was best play.

Thinking leading the flop and not going for check raise was correct. Should I have 4 bet flop?

Turn: Should have I gone for a checkraise, or is leading right. Since I lead, no three bet terrible?

River: As hand played, should I have gotten creative with a sneaky check raise?
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Old 11-05-2017, 08:32 PM   #2
SetofJacks
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Re: How Bad Did I play this hand?

Raise preflop, cap flop, 3-bet turn, call down from a 4-bet.
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Old 11-05-2017, 08:40 PM   #3
pokerchris
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Re: How Bad Did I play this hand?

Why do I raise 7's preflop on a hand I need to hit a 7 to win?

I know that is a standard play, but not sure I understand the logic.

Also, lead with bottom set on a somewhat coordinated board is correct flop play from 1st position into 5 opponents? Not go for a check raise?

Last edited by pokerchris; 11-05-2017 at 08:54 PM.
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Old 11-05-2017, 10:25 PM   #4
jdr0317
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Re: How Bad Did I play this hand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerchris View Post
Please criticize all streets! I will give my reasoning for each street, and please tell me why I am a moron.

Small blind 7-7

UTG, Next player, cut off and button limp.

I smooth call. Button smooth calls.

Standard? No reason to pop a raise here?

Flop comes 7-8-J. I lead, BB folds, UTG raises, next player re raises. Cut off and button fold. I flat the three bet.

Turn comes 8 (bringing two flush). I lead my full house, utg folds, next player raises. I flat. Think he either has a straight or J-8. Unlikely he has J-J as no preflop raise. Should I have 3 bet there or check raise the turn?

River, K of clubs, I check, he bets, I call, he turns over 9-10 of spades for the flopped straight.

How many bets did I lose, and was giving him potentially J-8 suited stupid thinking? I have been playing a lot of Omaha lately and kind of spooks you into fearing the under full.

So, decision points:

Thinking flatting 7's in the little blind was best play.

Thinking leading the flop and not going for check raise was correct. Should I have 4 bet flop?

Turn: Should have I gone for a checkraise, or is leading right. Since I lead, no three bet terrible?

River: As hand played, should I have gotten creative with a sneaky check raise?
Raise pre. You don't need to hit a 7 to win, it'll just make things helpful. Obviously a raise is far less profitable from the sb than the btn, but small to middle pp's play pretty well out of position, all things considered.

Flop: must cap

Turn: why are you donk betting? And if you're donk betting, why isn't it with intent to 3 bet? There's more combos of T9 (16) than J8 (6) and 87 (2). Also, these guys often love raising flop here with T8/98, so it's possible those can raise, too.

River, well, I've already mentioned what's wrong here. My only question is, if he showed J8, would this thread even get posted, or would you be proud that your lowest variance, minimax line caused you to lose the least?
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Old 11-06-2017, 03:18 AM   #5
chillrob
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Re: How Bad Did I play this hand?

Raising preflop isn't terrible, but it's certainly not standard.

I would usually 4-bet the turn here, though it does somewhat depend on who the tendencies of the player who 3-bet. Not sure if you were slowplaying or afraid of a better hand. If you really think you were behind on the flop, then....

You definitely need to put in more action on the turn. If you're leading, it should be hoping to get raised so you can 3-bet.
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Old 11-06-2017, 05:56 AM   #6
leavesofliberty
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Re: How Bad Did I play this hand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerchris View Post
Please criticize all streets! I will give my reasoning for each street, and please tell me why I am a moron.

Small blind 7-7

UTG, Next player, cut off and button limp.

I smooth call. Button smooth calls.

Standard? No reason to pop a raise here?

Flop comes 7-8-J. I lead, BB folds, UTG raises, next player re raises. Cut off and button fold. I flat the three bet.

Turn comes 8 (bringing two flush). I lead my full house, utg folds, next player raises. I flat. Think he either has a straight or J-8. Unlikely he has J-J as no preflop raise. Should I have 3 bet there or check raise the turn?

River, K of clubs, I check, he bets, I call, he turns over 9-10 of spades for the flopped straight.

How many bets did I lose, and was giving him potentially J-8 suited stupid thinking? I have been playing a lot of Omaha lately and kind of spooks you into fearing the under full.

So, decision points:

Thinking flatting 7's in the little blind was best play.

Thinking leading the flop and not going for check raise was correct. Should I have 4 bet flop?

Turn: Should have I gone for a checkraise, or is leading right. Since I lead, no three bet terrible?

River: As hand played, should I have gotten creative with a sneaky check raise?
I get why you were cautious, but you have to realize that your probabilities should be weighted towards T9 rather than J8, especially if all the jacks and eights are different suits. There's 1-2 ways to make J8 suited, and a lot of times players throw that straight in the muck, and there's many more ways to play T9, and it can be off-suit. HOWEVER, 87 still beats you, which you should fear more than J8. So, there are 3 full house combos (combine J8 and 87), but if J8s is possible I have to think T9o is possible as well, so I raise.
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Old 11-06-2017, 01:45 PM   #7
Kevin J
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Re: How Bad Did I play this hand?

I could be wrong, but don't think 77 is a clear cut raise pre, since your equity v the limping ranges and a random BB runs really close, plus you'll have worst position throughout the hand. It's not like you have QQ

I know I check too many flops and really don't have much of a lead out range from the sb, but I think betting is fine. When raised, I'd fast play, since there are at least 8 turn turn cards that could slow down the action, plus a few that might cause more action from worse hands .

As played, I think you're still ahead of too many hands not to 3 bet the turn.

On the river, I'd be willing to bet/call or check-raise/call as well. If you lose to J8 that's life at limit poker.
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Old 11-07-2017, 08:52 AM   #8
Bill Haywood
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Re: How Bad Did I play this hand?

In a family pot oop, I don't see the point of raising pre. Equity plummets on so many flops.
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Old 11-08-2017, 03:09 AM   #9
rodeo
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Re: How Bad Did I play this hand?

Pre flop you played well. Don’t raise pre.
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Old 11-08-2017, 07:08 PM   #10
samdash
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Re: How Bad Did I play this hand?

Take a page out of Mason's book and don't raise pre from the small blind with medium pocket pairs.
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Old 11-09-2017, 02:50 PM   #11
leavesofliberty
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Re: How Bad Did I play this hand?

Don't raise pre. 3-bet turn.
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:13 AM   #12
AlanBostick
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Re: How Bad Did I play this hand?

I'm handwaving here, not having done any guessing of ranges or stoving, but I think equitywise we do have more than 17%, so raising is profitable, I suppose.

I still wouldn't do it, as we have absolute worst position, and it is going to be hard to realized our equity without taking our hand to showdown. This is a great spot to setmine, though.

Once we hit our flop, we should put the pedal to the metal and keep it there: Bet or raise every chance we get. Once the board pairs on the turn, keep shoveling money into the pot. If someone else has a better hand, well, coolers happen.

As played on the flop, the only argument for donking the turn is that it lets us bet/3!/5! if the room allows four raises to cap rather than three. If a cap is three raises, then with UTG+1 having the initative, we want to k/r!/4!
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Old 11-14-2017, 09:47 PM   #13
jdr0317
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Re: How Bad Did I play this hand?

You guys underrate that with a hand like 77, our dramatic equity shift from preflop happens immediately on the flop. So being OOP isn't as devastating. I'd much rather take a check heavy flop strat than complete.
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Old 11-15-2017, 11:43 AM   #14
leavesofliberty
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Re: How Bad Did I play this hand?

Raise pre with 99+. The main problem with raising with lower is that you'll flop bad, and not realize your equity pre-flop. The worse the hands your opponents limp with, the more you can bend this rule, imo. But my standard is 99+.
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Old Yesterday, 09:35 PM   #15
ZOMG_RIGGED!
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Re: How Bad Did I play this hand?

Quote:
There's 1-2 ways to make J8 suited, and a lot of times players throw that straight in the muck, and there's many more ways to play T9, and it can be off-suit.
Awesome
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