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Old 12-18-2017, 06:32 PM   #1
Crazy Joe Davola
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A hand of 60-120

Villain is one of the best LHE players in the area. Aggressive and laggy at the right times and doesn't miss bets.

Full game. I open KdJd third to act. Villain 3bets from SB and I call. Heads up.

Flop Kh6c5h. Bet raise call.

Turn 4h. He c/r I call.

River Jo. He c/r.
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Old 12-18-2017, 06:34 PM   #2
OnTheRail15
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Re: A hand of 60-120

Why did you raise the flop?


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Old 12-18-2017, 10:09 PM   #3
Crazy Joe Davola
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Re: A hand of 60-120

Because I had top pair. Is that not a good reason?

Do you mean as opposed to raising the turn?
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Old 12-18-2017, 10:17 PM   #4
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Re: A hand of 60-120

Well you opened from ep and he 3b you in the spot he should be playing tightest. I donít think you are doing awesome vs his continuing range....


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Old 12-18-2017, 10:19 PM   #5
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A hand of 60-120

As played I donít know what the question is if it isnít the flop. I would call the river xr. I guess the river bet is kinda close. His line is pretty stupid.


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Old 12-19-2017, 12:53 AM   #6
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Re: A hand of 60-120

I don't think there's any good reason to raise flop no matter what your assumptions are about his range. If you think he has a super tight range, you should probably call flop and bet if checked to. If you think he has a wider range and you're doing better against it, I'd call flop and raise turn (since I assume you are peeling pretty wide on this flop for 1 bet on any event).

As played I think turn/river are fine. I don't think river bet is close and I agree his line is dumb.
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Old 12-19-2017, 03:08 AM   #7
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Re: A hand of 60-120

The more I think of it no player fitting that description is ever taking this line on the river unless heís going to xr. So you shouldnít bet the river unless you want to be xr w top two.


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Old 12-19-2017, 03:18 AM   #8
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Re: A hand of 60-120

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The more I think of it no player fitting that description is ever taking this line on the river unless heís going to xr. So you shouldnít bet the river unless you want to be xr w top two.


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When you lose to exactly three Kings, I donít mind putting two bets on here.
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Old 12-19-2017, 03:19 AM   #9
OnTheRail15
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Re: A hand of 60-120

Youíre missing the flush which we donít block


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Old 12-19-2017, 04:30 AM   #10
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Re: A hand of 60-120

[QUOTE=OnTheRail15;53256900]Youíre missing the flush which we donít block

Yep, missed that.

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Old 12-19-2017, 03:59 PM   #11
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Re: A hand of 60-120

I could definitely be wrong here but it seems that not having the Jh blocker adds only a 8% higher probability of villain having a flush. I arrived at 8% because 3 hearts are out instead of 4, so the remaining flush cards make up 10/13 (77%) vs. 9/13 (69%). Let's say Villain has a flush here even HALF of the time, not having the blocker makes him only 4% more likely to have the flush (.5 x .08 + .5 = .54).

IMO, Villain should not be xR any portion of his range on river unless he is against an opponent who is a combination of someone who 1) overfolds (and he is xR as a bluff) and 2) is very stabby. Sometimes even experts will get bored, have fancy play syndrome, and mix it up for fun here as well. As played, I think you played the hand correctly and wouldn't worry about not having the Jh blocker that much.

As a side note, I generally think experts nowadays are overvaluing blockers in limit. Sure it increases Villain's chances of having a flush by 8% but this isn't NL or PLO where that 8% of an all-in is a large factor - there are a lot more important decisions going on in hands than blockers in LHE and I think there are only a few rare instances where it should really be factored into your decision making in HU, non 4-flush board pots. As I've watched some RIO RunLikePanda vids it amazes me how much of his and other "experts" decision making factors into blockers where they are missing out on the larger piece of the puzzle. Last, by no means am I saying these players are playing poorly, just that their brainpower should move toward other factors

Last edited by NedSchneebly; 12-19-2017 at 04:11 PM.
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Old 12-19-2017, 04:57 PM   #12
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Re: A hand of 60-120

When villains range is super tight blockers become much more important. Like letís say villain can only have aces kings and flushes, the blocker becomes much more important l.


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Old 12-19-2017, 05:00 PM   #13
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Re: A hand of 60-120

Also I have to say it again. Raising the flop vs a legit Sb 3b range is pretty bad.


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Old 12-19-2017, 05:17 PM   #14
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Re: A hand of 60-120

Do you know what the ratio of nonsuited to suited hands from a reasonable SB3! Range is here compared to let's say a SB3! V a BTN open? Also call on flop seems best unless ur v a super sdb player who is incapable of bluffing with worse
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Old 12-19-2017, 05:20 PM   #15
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Re: A hand of 60-120

Yes but I fail to see how thatís too relevant on the river here given villainís line.


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Old 12-21-2017, 09:05 PM   #16
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Re: A hand of 60-120

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Also I have to say it again. Raising the flop vs a legit Sb 3b range is pretty bad.


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If you call flop and turn would you raise/fold the river jack? Or simply continue playing as a second best hand? I think that's how I'd play it but I'd like to hear your thoughts as I greatly respect your opinion.
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Old 12-21-2017, 09:08 PM   #17
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Re: A hand of 60-120

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If you call flop and turn would you raise/fold the river jack? Or simply continue playing as a second best hand? I think that's how I'd play it but I'd like to hear your thoughts as I greatly respect your opinion.


Iíd probably raise/call this hand on the river as Iíd guess id be way overfolding otherwise. But yeah Iíd be calling flop/turn/river on most runouts.
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Old 12-23-2017, 03:25 AM   #18
Crazy Joe Davola
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Re: A hand of 60-120

I won because villain had AhQx
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Old 12-24-2017, 07:04 PM   #19
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Re: A hand of 60-120

Might want to adjust your read.
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Old 12-25-2017, 02:08 AM   #20
Crazy Joe Davola
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Re: A hand of 60-120

I think he was having a bad day. Usually he is great
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Old 12-25-2017, 12:04 PM   #21
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Re: A hand of 60-120

I think it's interesting. Flop cbet is standard and on turn AQ is never leading out, but if OP would ever play 99-QQ like this, I can see maybe turning it into a xr bluff. On river, does OP have +10 value bets given this action? Can he ever show up with something like AxTh, or be turning 7h7x or 8h8x into a bluff?

I'm not saying villain's line is good or bad, but I can see some logic to it. I've also seen people convince themselves that a pair of kings or even AA can't possibly be good here and follow up with a terrible hero fold.
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Old 12-25-2017, 02:45 PM   #22
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Re: A hand of 60-120

River is terrible. People who ch/r this river as a bluff almost always do it because they’re trying too hard and spew off with some unbelievable line. River is just going to get check through so much he basically never has anything. His hand looks like nothing, which is not the ideal time to bluff at a bloated hu pot
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Old 12-25-2017, 03:21 PM   #23
OnTheRail15
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Re: A hand of 60-120

Yeah he obviously shouldnít ever take this line with any hand.


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Old 12-25-2017, 03:44 PM   #24
Crazy Joe Davola
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Re: A hand of 60-120

I actually contemplated a fold so maybe I am terrible
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Old 12-25-2017, 04:10 PM   #25
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Re: A hand of 60-120

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I actually contemplated a fold so maybe I am terrible
Would you have bet the river if you hadn’t improved? If you’d have autobet a king, then his c/r is less bad and it’s more likely you’re terrible. If you wouldn’t then unless you have specifically KJ what hand do you think he’s trying to get value from? There are a very hands you can even bet for value when he checks, let alone bet/call, so he should just be betting everything. Ergo, it’s bull**** a lot and the times you lose just internally roll your eyes and his bad he played
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