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Old 04-26-2017, 10:03 PM   #1
DonkeyOnTilt
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Good spot to check back or missed value?

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Folds to me one off the button and I have QT spades. I bump it up and both the SB and BB call. SB is a standard ABC type tag. Nothing exciting. BB is a tough, aggressive player who is probably slightly too loose but likes to play big pots and will fight for them all.

Flop comes AT4 one spade and it checks to me. Is this a good spot to check back or is betting optimal? If this isn't the right hand to check back, tell me which kind are.

Last edited by DonkeyOnTilt; 04-26-2017 at 10:25 PM. Reason: Clarity
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Old 04-26-2017, 10:16 PM   #2
ninefingershuffle
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Re: Good spot to check back or missed value?

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Old 04-26-2017, 11:50 PM   #3
asmitty
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Re: Good spot to check back or missed value?

You should bet this hand for sure. If I checked back it would be with a hand (a) with which I would fold the turn without improvement and (b) could hit various cards that would allow me to raise the turn and (c) could hit various cards that would allow me to call the turn. I am thinking primarily of gutshot draws with a BDFD, 22, 33, and 55.
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Old 04-27-2017, 06:49 AM   #4
monikrazy
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Re: Good spot to check back or missed value?

I think I check back in this spot something like 20-25% of the time - I'm not sure if that's a good approach or not
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Old 04-27-2017, 09:43 AM   #5
PaulValente
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Re: Good spot to check back or missed value?

Does BB have a 3b range? If so just bet 100%

Good hands to check back would be like 45s, T8s, QJ, maybe AA sometimes. QT is too strong to checkback imo.
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Old 04-27-2017, 10:08 AM   #6
PaulValente
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Re: Good spot to check back or missed value?

Quote:
Originally Posted by asmitty View Post
22, 33, and 55.
These are good candidates too. And something like 89 that you will just toss on most turns but can hit a pair or open ender sometimes and can continue.
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Old 04-27-2017, 02:39 PM   #7
OnTheRail15
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Re: Good spot to check back or missed value?

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Originally Posted by monikrazy View Post
I think I check back in this spot something like 20-25% of the time - I'm not sure if that's a good approach or not
Seems high to me. How did you decide on this number?
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Old 04-27-2017, 05:50 PM   #8
phunkphish
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Re: Good spot to check back or missed value?

SB is ABC means he won't bluff enough on A-hi dry flops.
BB range is super wide: even if he fights for pots, his range is weak on this flop.
This is a good recipe to cbet 100%.

Good value hands to check back: KK, 99, QQ, JJ, 88. When we are behind with these hands, we have few outs. Checking back lets BB stab at pots which we are happy calling down, and can possibly raising river.
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Old 04-27-2017, 06:42 PM   #9
DonkeyOnTilt
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Re: Good spot to check back or missed value?

I think maybe I'm mis-applying strengthening a check back range concept. I thought this was a good spot as I'm very likely to be ahead and can't be bluffed off my hand on any turn card. My previous default is to bet here always but I'm trying to improve and become less transparent by having some stronger hands when I check flops. I guess I erred here but I'm not quite understanding how it is drastically different than checking some of the other hands listed. I'm continuing on every turn card really and given the villains listed, don't expect being bluffed off my hand as I don't believe SB would bet a worse ten on the turn.

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Old 04-28-2017, 07:33 PM   #10
PocketKings
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Re: Good spot to check back or missed value?

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These are good candidates too. And something like 89 that you will just toss on most turns but can hit a pair or open ender sometimes and can continue.
If turn 8 or 9 are you planning to call down a brick river?

If turn 7 will you call opponent's turn bet since odds is barely enough?
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Old 04-28-2017, 07:59 PM   #11
DonkeyOnTilt
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Re: Good spot to check back or missed value?

Against this opponent a turned 8 or 9 should be good. I'm still waiting to hear more about check back ranges. I'm still kinda confused as I previously just bet bet bet and I'm trying to work on balance.

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Old 04-28-2017, 08:00 PM   #12
DonkeyOnTilt
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Re: Good spot to check back or missed value?

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Against this opponent a turned 8 or 9 should be good. I'm still waiting to hear more about check back ranges. I'm still kinda confused as I previously just bet bet bet and I'm trying to work on balance.

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Should be good enough to call turn I mean. He will fire every turn if I check flop regardless of holding.
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Old 04-29-2017, 02:23 PM   #13
Omahaisbetter
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Re: Good spot to check back or missed value?

I don't like checking this flop back against two opponents. Question if a seemingly harmless card hits turn and straight forward player leads the turn how do you proceed?
I'm always betting this hand in this spot. Perhaps a spot to check back heads up against the more aggressive player to induce a bluff or let him think he is value betting a worse hand. If TAG has a hand like 99 or a worse ten and a blank hits turn he may bet both turn and river are you calling this player down? I actually don't like checking back medium strength hands that are vulnerable. If you are really working on check back range how do you feel about AK AQ with intention of raising most turns if either opponent leads out?
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Old 04-30-2017, 06:34 PM   #14
DonkeyOnTilt
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Re: Good spot to check back or missed value?

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I don't like checking this flop back against two opponents. Question if a seemingly harmless card hits turn and straight forward player leads the turn how do you proceed?
I'm always betting this hand in this spot. Perhaps a spot to check back heads up against the more aggressive player to induce a bluff or let him think he is value betting a worse hand. If TAG has a hand like 99 or a worse ten and a blank hits turn he may bet both turn and river are you calling this player down? I actually don't like checking back medium strength hands that are vulnerable. If you are really working on check back range how do you feel about AK AQ with intention of raising most turns if either opponent leads out?
If a blank hits the turn and the SB bets he most likely had me beat on the flop or hit a 2 outer. Like I said, I've always usually bet here, I just thought that since there is really no turn card I have to fold for one bet I thought it might be a nice spot to pick up bluffs from the BB. The real disaster would be if the SB bets turn and BB bluff raises me off the best hand which is possible.

I guess the consensus is keep betting here like I always have.
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