Is the new(ish) FW 20/40 w/kill a half kill or full kill?

I haven't played it yet and have gotten different answers from different people. Anyone know for sure?

half at 200$

Much appreciated.

Is that second straight pot of more than $200 like most LHE kill games or is every 5 BB pot a kill pot?

5.5 BB pot. Floor ruling is that a 5 BB pot doesn't meet kill criteria ($200) due to rake. But yes, just one pot, and kill stays on until a pot is under $200 post rake.

Sorry to be dumb but how and why this format is popular.
The kill one ?
When it started it ?
It bring what to the game beside more rake for the house ?

Most have no qualifier on the first hand - win any pot to get the "leg up"/"first pot" then there's a qualifier to make it a kill.

It filters out the nits and brings money back into the game to make hit and runs harder. Also the bad rush players like to go for the kills so that’s always fun.

Don’t see how it brings in any more rake, at least in the LA format where rake doesn’t scale to pot size. If anything rake is reduced (as a percentage) in kill pots.

Also the game only goes Thursday to Saturday if you decide to go

lol montreal jfc. more rake ok man. use your head for a second.

the format is popular bc big pots with lots of money is fun. the rake diff is minimal.

The pots are not as big as they'd be if it were just a 30/60 game. I don't really understand why kills are popular myself either.

Unless players are super tight, the kill pots probably are bigger than in 30/60 no kill, and not just because $60 in blinds is more than $50. Live players are notorious for playing looser with part of a bet already in front of them. I swear, even in $4/8 FK O8, in a kill pot that small blind will call 6 more chips very loosely because they're getting a 25% discount. Maybe even call a raise for 14 more chips.

Really you can make a good case for replacing the kill with four blinds of $5, $10, $15, and $20, although the game might not go with all the nits that would drive away.

The kill pots are likely bigger, but not the average pot. Of course I'm not sure, as I've never played in a LHE game where only one pot was required to trigger the kill.

Me neither. But this is reminding me of when I first learned poker and was trying to make the big leap from Foxwoods 4/8 so I could be a RED CHIP PLAYER. I was intrigued by the 5/10 but quickly reasoned that if the pot only has to be $50 to trigger a kill, it was either so tight it wasn't worth playing or was really a 10/20 game in disguise.

Not to mention there's literally no rake difference. If the house is making more, it's because people are playing more hands, which is awesome too.

So this seems somewhat similar to playing with 'the rock, which was basically a forced straddle if I remember right.

OT: Has anyone played a full kill game within the last year live?

I never have but Pottawatime 30/60 half kill like 10 years ago in Milwaukee, Wisconsin was by far the best LHE game I have ever played sans Commerce grave 60/120.

I played 20/40 with full kill in La Center, WA. Of course it was the regular kill where you have to win two pots to kill it. It was a good game, but I don't really think that was because of the kill.

We used to play 50/100 and 75/150 LHE at Maryland Live! Casino with a half-kill, full-kill, and/or a “rock.” I was shocked to see these variants on the betting structures work so effectively at loosening up the action, even at those relatively higher stakes. Many nights, the 75/150 LHE played significantly larger than a typical 100/200 game. The pots were just insanely huge at times.

You will definitely see some players tighten way up in the kill pots, while others will become total lag-spews. The game gets juiciest when the fish go on rushes and earn the kill button over and over. That scenario creates any LHE player’s dream game.

2-chip/4-chip blind structures are much more popular now on the East and West Coasts than 2-chip/3-chip blind structures. (E.g., all the games in Vegas used to be 15/30 and 30/60, but now they’re 20/40 and 40/60.) It doesn’t surprise me that a 20/40 with kill would be popular at Foxwoods now because many are reluctant to move to 40/80 and higher, so the kill game also helps to fill a void in the limit stakes ladder/pyramid.

And I would imagine that to be a good game, for sure. GL!

Good point. It sounds like this is a trick to introduce $30/60 that looks like $20/40, but the kill structure means the blinds are still $10 and $20. I need to think more about how that changes things.

Actually thx guys i actually see why kill or half kill game can be fun in that perspective.
I wish online they would have those table availability !

Kill games allow the game to play higher and in a way that is favorable to knowledgeable players without scaring away players who don't want to play that high.

Having said that, I would caution that lots of "good" players completely screw up the strategy of legs up and kill pots, so if you are going to regularly play in this game, you need to adjust your strategy to the presence of the kill (especially by tightening up with the leg up).

I agree with all of this except that this Foxwoods house rule doesn't appear to involve legs up:



Thus, I call it a $30/60 game in disguise. I'm sure there are SOME kill pots that don't reach 3.5 big bets ($210) but it sounds like once the kill is on, it could be a while until it turns off again.

This is one of the most crucial points to make here, and I should have said it as well/straightforwardly as you did. For players not familiar with how the kill will change the size of the game, the first thing that one must ascertain is what the house rules are, exactly, regarding the “leg up” situation, etc. In our larger games, the kill really did, indeed, turn the 75/150 into something more like a 125/250 game “in disguise.”

Players who are less experienced at the stakes they are playing should certainly be aware, as has also been well stated above, that the kill certainly benefits the experts in the game, and it is usually the cardroom regulars at a certain stakes who get together and decide to try have the game spread with the kill.

And the other point above that I agree with (in most scenarios) is that it is often very important to tighten up in the kill/leg-up pots if you perceive that your opponents are splashing too much in the larger pots. This is not only good strategy, but will also be especially useful advice for any players who have recently moved up in stakes and wish to avoid the additional bankroll variance that comes from the addition of the kill.

GL!

If our opponents are splashing around too much, wouldn't the correct adjustment be to play slightly more hands? Tightening up will reduce variance but will also sacrifice some amount of EV as a result. Depending on a player's bankroll situation that might be the right decision, I'm just not sure it's going to win the most money.

To be fair, I haven't sim'd out a scenario where opponent's opening ranges are looser than modeled GTO. Might be interesting homework for tonight to see how iron man adjusts

J Lot