Villain is decent young kid. Probably doesn't win a ton, at least break even. Too agro preflop up front imo, tilts really hard sometimes, so actually probably losing player due to that.
He is winning today it seems, has a mountain of chips.
I just posted BB, my first hand. Villain thinks I play straight forward v him which I do a lot.
20-40
Villain opens hj.
I flat black QQ in BB.

Head up.
Flop:AK6 two spades.

I don't want to check raise lead the turn. I don't think villain is ever folding better and can own me a lot.
C/c down feels bad too.

So I donk....

I used to 3! Preflop. Now I am trying this flat 100% in the BB theory.

I see how 3! Cbet is the same as flat x/r.. But it isn't the "same" imo.

That flop sucks. Why not x/c and reevaluate on the turn?

What is the bet for? Information?

Any plan has to start with checking imo.

If you're taking any sort of action, you should know why you're doing it, at least theoretically. Your donk bet has defeated half the reason why you would call your entire range in the BB.

I think you would probably be best off 3 betting preflop

Agree with all of that.

Basically i thought it (donk) felt the least crappy of all the crappy options I had,
If check call flop then what? check fold turn? If I call the turn I am for sure calling all three streets, and just don't like this call down (live ring game).

X/r flop seems bad -see board.

An c/f seems crappy too...

So c/c and hope he checks back turn?

Once you check call, there are actually better turn cards (Q, spade, J or T) and bricks.

With respect to the bricks, there's also a possibility of a check back by the villain on the turn.

If it's a brick and he bets, put him on a range and decide if you have the equity for a calldown.

just turn your cards face up on the flop and then check

but this is correct, and not a troll.

if you are not comfy playing a certain style (and understanding some of the basic themes of it), then don't play that style

Doesn't seem weird to me. Seems like a pretty nice benefiting of flatting pf that I can make sure I only have to put in one bet maximum on every street here.

By flatting and then donking you give up the benefit of flatting, the two together make no sense.

This is absolutely correct, even if it's tongue in cheek.

Why can't we just c/c 3 times against someone who is too aggro (i take this to mean too loose, since it's tough to imagine having a truly too aggressive strategy from early position preflop) at times?

If it bricks out and he's the type to barrel off then your equity can't be so awful.

^ I agree this is a pretty drawy board that I can just call down.

Assuming he opens wide from the co, and pretty much sees me as someone who plays straight forward vs him. He is folding a pretty big chunk of his range to this donk don't you think?

+1 for 3! Pre

How does that help you?

fyp

Yeah it doesn't really. I guess I just did it because I hate the flop and as someone said before. It (donk)was for "info"
If I get raised I prolly just call and c/f any turn that doesn't help.

I post this hand cause I didn't think I played it even close to right and wanted to find out how I should play it (forgetting the results)... Basically like every hand I will ever post here, looking for help and advice.

When I get in a weird spot that I don't like and I feel like there is good fold equity I often just bet... Probably a big leak but I am still learning this game and I am trying hard to learn it.

One of the smaller benefits of not 3! pre is that on bad flops you can save half a bet. This is one of those times where we might be able to save half a bet.

By c/f? Seems weak given that his range is pretty dang wide

No. One of the other reasons to not 3 bet pre in these situations is to allow yourself to check/call on bad boards for your hand that have enough equity to justify it. If you play this as wa/wb and simply check/call assuming he bets all 3 streets you've invested 7 small bets. And have the added advantage in that he might just check the river with a weak king saving you 2 small bets. One of the issues with playing out of position is often not getting full value on your hands. And if he's bluffing every street, you get full value anyways, and yes occasionally he's going to suck out with a hand that may have folded to a flop or turn check raise.

Now compare this with 3 betting pre. If you bet the flop which you should and you get raised what are you doing? Assuming you call down in this case you've invested 9 small bets.

Assuming you 3 bet pre bet flop and get called. Now what? If you check/call turn and river you've invested 8 small bets. Is this balanced? Will a average hand reader realize that you likely never have an ace here?

Finally assume you 3 bet pre flop and then donk check this flop and call down. You've invested 8 small bets again and likely have put yourself in an even worse balance unless you start playing big aces and other hands like this on the flop before c/r turn or river. Is this balanced?

So what am I saying? Flat pre. Check/call flop. If opponent is bluffy enough or value bets thin enough call his ass down. If not and turn gives no improvement and villian is unlikely to bet worse than a king here easy peasy fold.

What about C/C flop and hope he check backs turn and C/F if he bets turn?

You only called out of the BB, why get married to the hand on the worst flop ever?

If ÿou had 3! Pre, and then lead flop he's folding a lot of non-ace /non-FD. Since you flatted, the donk here feels like a fd a lot to a thinking player. A "straightforward" player will usually try to c/r here with an A, since we can assume there is a c-bet coming close to 100% on this flop heads-up.

^thanks wacky. That was an awesome post and really helpful.

Im thinking based on your read on villain. Too aggro up front im taking to mean a lot of aces are in his range prolly down to A9off ? Kjoff Kqoff. Also all pp 55 or better ? All suited picture hands.

Based on those ranges I would make the plan to check call flop, check call turn if its any spade, and check call river if it blanks with no spade, check call or check raise river if spade.

If I check call flop and turn is no spade no jack ten or queen then I would check fold turn.

If I check call flop and turn is a queen I would bet then 3 bet call if he 4 bets and fold river unimproved if he bets. He might 4 bet turn with AK and check river.

I will throw a change in the at bat ofcourse, but the general theme against him will remain the same in using his aggression against him. Usually with these types of players when they are running well they will tend to stay near the top of their ranges for the day. So I would love to check call and check fold this hand in this spot and not feel like im giving up too much hand. Wait for him on the day he is running bad and attack him in a similar spot where he will not be thinking well, or anywhere near the top of his ranges. So anyone reading this in my games, when your running good be bluffy against me

The point, really, is that you don't HAVE to show aggression post-flop just because you have a strong preflop hand. People seem to get stuck on this a lot, as if it's a requirement to cbet after raising preflop. You see it particularly when they have AQ/AK in the SB/BB in a 4+ way pot and they 3bet preflop and then the flop comes 89J all hearts and they feel obligated to bet AKspades. You can just check.

Same thing here. We got a bad flop for our hand, nbd. Now you're feeling pretty good about not 3! preflop.