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Old 05-26-2018, 12:47 PM   #1
ninefingershuffle
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The Emperor's New Coat -2

V1 is decent but super wide preflop. He thinks I'm a nit and likes to hero fold unless he is stuck.

V2 plays good unless stuck. He thinks I'm a monkey.

Neither Villain is stuck.

V1 opens in MP, I 3 bet black AJ next in, V2 caps on the button. Three to the flop of

T84 with two clubs.

Checks to button V2 who bets, V1 calls, I call.

Turn is a red ace.

Checks to V2 who bets, v1 c/r, I slam a 3 bet in.
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Old 05-26-2018, 01:20 PM   #2
OnTheRail15
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Re: The Emperor's New Coat -2

I would call.
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Old 05-26-2018, 01:23 PM   #3
ninefingershuffle
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Re: The Emperor's New Coat -2

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Originally Posted by OnTheRail15 View Post
I would call.
I知 bluffing!
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Old 05-26-2018, 01:25 PM   #4
OnTheRail15
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Re: The Emperor's New Coat -2

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Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle View Post
I知 bluffing!


Don稚.
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Old 05-26-2018, 05:02 PM   #5
SetofJacks
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Re: The Emperor's New Coat -2

I also would call.
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Old 05-26-2018, 11:50 PM   #6
LaramieJC
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Re: The Emperor's New Coat -2

How about just leading the turn?
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Old 05-27-2018, 12:07 AM   #7
ninefingershuffle
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Re: The Emperor's New Coat -2

Don't quite get the call. Get the fold. Don't get the call. What the heck am I beating?
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Old 05-27-2018, 12:14 AM   #8
OnTheRail15
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Re: The Emperor's New Coat -2

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Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle View Post
Don't quite get the call. Get the fold. Don't get the call. What the heck am I beating?


An ace that is worse than AJ?


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Old 05-27-2018, 02:44 AM   #9
ninefingershuffle
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Re: The Emperor's New Coat -2

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An ace that is worse than AJ?


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So not Ak, not aq, not at, not a whatever the medium card is on the board. I知 drawing slim, no? Call is better than ford? With 2 players?
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Old 05-27-2018, 07:31 AM   #10
OnTheRail15
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Re: The Emperor's New Coat -2

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Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle View Post
So not Ak, not aq, not at, not a whatever the medium card is on the board. I知 drawing slim, no? Call is better than ford? With 2 players?


You said he is wide and the pot is big.
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Old 05-27-2018, 10:28 AM   #11
codygary12
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Re: The Emperor's New Coat -2

Just call, this 3! Is atrocious and always bad, dont play this way if you want to be profitable at lhe
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Old 05-27-2018, 10:57 AM   #12
DonJuan
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Re: The Emperor's New Coat -2

the problem with trying to bluff there probably better draw combos to maybe mix bluff % if you think raising that extra bet would cause which one? to fold. Then you add in the fact that AJ do have decent outs against A4s/A8s chop against AJ and beat all below except for AQ since no way is AK folding. If people are folding strong Ax then I would rather mix bluff combos draw. I guess not much combos draw but I think suited Ax fd is still better
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Old 05-28-2018, 08:38 PM   #13
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Re: The Emperor's New Coat -2

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Originally Posted by OnTheRail15 View Post
I would call.
Me too.
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Old 05-29-2018, 05:29 PM   #14
asmitty
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Re: The Emperor's New Coat -2

Why not donk the turn?

As played I think calling turn is the clear play, but having 3bet, I think betting river if V2 calls is suicide.
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Old 05-30-2018, 01:24 AM   #15
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Re: The Emperor's New Coat -2

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonJuan View Post
the problem with trying to bluff there probably better draw combos to maybe mix bluff % if you think raising that extra bet would cause which one? to fold. Then you add in the fact that AJ do have decent outs against A4s/A8s chop against AJ and beat all below except for AQ since no way is AK folding. If people are folding strong Ax then I would rather mix bluff combos draw. I guess not much combos draw but I think suited Ax fd is still better
Thanks for this.

You're the best although OnTheRail15 posts are always a pleasure as well even if concise.

I play bad but I'm cold calling turn as default without exceptional meta/history vs villains and reads.

Donking turn is not an option in my playstyle on this turn which I'm sure is an error on my part.
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Old 06-01-2018, 11:48 PM   #16
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Re: The Emperor's New Coat -2

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle View Post
I知 bluffing!
Don't you have like QJs in your range? I'd much rather use that. We aren't folding MP off a better ace here so trying to bluff him with this hand is pointless.
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Old 06-02-2018, 01:35 PM   #17
ninefingershuffle
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Re: The Emperor's New Coat -2

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Originally Posted by jdr0317 View Post
Don't you have like QJs in your range? I'd much rather use that. We aren't folding MP off a better ace here so trying to bluff him with this hand is pointless.
I guess I知 targeting specifically AQ and sometime AK but I can see him folding those a fair amount thinking he is drawing slim.
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Old 06-03-2018, 04:46 PM   #18
Clayton
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Re: The Emperor's New Coat -2

i would donk the turn
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Old 06-04-2018, 10:18 PM   #19
maka2184
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Re: The Emperor's New Coat -2

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i would donk the turn
Serious Q, how do you come up with a turn donk range?

I've rarely had one sans very narrow scenarios in which I was battling Way Ahead / Way Behind but this scenario seems way behind/ barely ahead
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Old 06-05-2018, 03:24 AM   #20
bipolarbearclaw
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Re: The Emperor's New Coat -2

Quote:
Originally Posted by maka2184 View Post
Serious Q, how do you come up with a turn donk range?

I've rarely had one sans very narrow scenarios in which I was battling Way Ahead / Way Behind but this scenario seems way behind/ barely ahead
In this spot you could probably lead most of your aces and 2 pair+ hands. Seems likely someone had a pocket that could be scared of the ace but probably pay off 2 bets. Not sure you need any bluffs or screwy donks here.
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Old 06-05-2018, 04:11 AM   #21
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Re: The Emperor's New Coat -2

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Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle View Post
I guess I知 targeting specifically AQ and sometime AK but I can see him folding those a fair amount thinking he is drawing slim.
If your table image is like the image I get of you from 2+2, there's no way AK is ever folding with 15 bets in the pot and two more bets to get to showdown. I guess on your very best days MP has KT/K8/K4 of clubs or is just spewing on a doomed semibluff and you fold out button's AK or AQ. That's some parlay.
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Old 06-09-2018, 10:53 AM   #22
CrazyLond
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Re: The Emperor's New Coat -2

Ranges are supposed to be pretty tight here. MP check raising with a worse ace seems awful. That's a massive overplay with A9. It feels like it's pretty much always a set or 2 pair. At worst, its AK or AQ. It would be an incredibly ambitious bluff and I have better hands in my own range I can call down with: I can have AK, AQ or AT myself, and I can also bluff catch with A9 of clubs. So, I'm pretty tempted to pitch the AJ. I think it's pretty close between call and fold.

I don't understand what you're trying to accomplish with a 3 bet.
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Old 06-09-2018, 10:56 AM   #23
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Re: The Emperor's New Coat -2

Also, bluff with hands that can improve if the bluff fails. Bluffing with the best hands you'd otherwise fold only makes sense on the river when improvement is impossible.
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