Mid stakes.

Villain in BB is a very strong tag. In limited history, seems to hand read well, know when to barrel off etc etc. I know that the bigger limit regs respect her play. I don't play with her often as she usually is only stopping by while waiting for bigger and better games. I'd imagine she views me as okay/mediocre/not nuts. She doesn't really know the rest of the table, if I had to guess.


Cold callers are in general a very loose loose passive bunch that would have raised all their top 10%ish hands and would cold call as wide as top 50%(any suited connected pairs, broadways...9/10s etc etc)

8 handed.

I open red 9's UTG, three people cold call. BB 3!'s, Everyone gets a smoothie and we're off 7.5 bets

Flop: 77d4d.

BB bets we??????????????????????????????

I raise. Yes good players don't auto cbet AK AQ AJ missed flops but a paired board is one they 'might' cbet. (Less chance of someone making a pair on the flop) At least this is a board that I will cbet.

But everyone has a pair

I raise as well.

Raise in game.

This is a sick spot to fold and never mention it to anyone though.

raising is the worst of the 3 options

If you are strongly leaning toward a fold, OK.

If you are considering just calling, I would tend to agree if it were heads up or only had one other player in the hand. Having several players behind that all seem like the types that will peel the flop brings about every turn card a bad card for you except for non-diamond 8, 7, 3, or 2. I think you have to thin the field here with your hand and either raise or fold.

If she was staying to play the game, I probably raise and call down if 3!.

If she was only staying for a short while until the bigger game opens, probably just dump it and pick a better spot against her.

Her range is heavily in favor of better pairs. Plus now a 7 beats you and you arent in a good spot with against a flush draw with an over card or two. Against 4 players, what do your think your equity is here?

Folding is out of the question unless you have a read that she *never* 3bs / barrels with AK. That's a weak sausage play right there.

If you optimistically include AQ/AK in her PFR+barrel range, that's 30 combos of "air", 2 big combo draws, 30 combos of overpairs. You are best a considerable amount of the time, and want to get folds. The prime cut play is to raise. If anyone folds, their equity flows to you. Sometimes someone behind has a 7, but it's only a 1SB investment that could gain you lots of equity.

If you strike out AQ combos, then 2/3 times you are behind PFR, and could still be behind someone with a 7. You're not minced meat yet. -- gotta call and reevaluate. Relative position sucks, but you are getting 16-1 immediate, might be good, and can still hit a 9.

I think folding might be worse at 22:1 but it's close. Call is so crystal clearly the right play I am very surprised so far

Don't raise and don't fold. At least don't fold just yet.

edit: in the op actually don't have 9 of diamonds in hand.

FWIW I didn't like any of the options but... I popped it. My hope was getting it heads up and hoping I wasn't in 2 out country was the best play. I'd have raised a/k or a/q of diamonds here on flop as well.

My 2! clears the field and BB 3!

When BB 3! My immediate thought is ace piece of diamonds, as a bigger pair should read my hand as 9s,10s,Js(alhtough i'd have capped jj) and just c/r all turns.

call down? spew?

This is so much spew. I don't know what to say. She has what, 2 combos of flush draws and the rest are QQ+? Once you got your wish and it went HU you should probably just call down, or even call then fold turn. You just aren't winning enough here.

This here.

We all do dumb **** at game speed but she 3! From blinds PF and just B-3! You on this flop.

As played, (obv) spike a 9, gutshot or diamond on the turn or GTFO.

That 4! Is ****ing terrible and you need to hear it. Like, if she's aggro-competent MAYBE AK/AQdd is possible but... So much spew.

Agree with all of this. I also think it's kind of interesting that there def seems to be a trend in this forum that it's generally the higher stakes players advocating more passive lines where most people would likely guess it's the other way around. I think there's just a lot of people that have a very hard time playing without the initiative in a hand or think the hand is easier to play when they raise when it's often just not the case

Having to play with the initiative is a characteristic of TAG(fish)s worldwide and has been for some time now. If this is in reference to the AK hand from small stakes, I don't see how they're similar.

In regard to this hand, I agree with call.

No I'm not talking about that hand, but a good example is other hand from that thread where AK gets lead into on 2-4-7 flop and snap raises

I agreed with the idea mentioned earlier that BB might well cbet AK/AQ because of the paired nature of the board. I mean I do think AK is going to be the best hand quite a bit if I am big blind in this spot and might cbet it myself.

So, my first thought was I should raise flop because my hand is best a reasonable amount of the time and when it is, it's important for me to protect it against overcard outs behind me because the pot is pretty big. I feel like the time I lose two extra small bets because the BB has a big pair are going to be made up for by the times I don't lose the whole pot because random person behind peels with JT.

However, if Bug, Donkey, Rodeo and JL all disagree then I am probably wrong. I think they are intending to just call down with 99, although maybe there is a remote possibility they are planning to raise turn to protect hand better if people call behind?

FWIW, if I did call the flop and people called behind, I think this might be a decent spot for a FSDR on the turn against some villains. And I hardly ever FSDR. I don't think it's perfect though, because we opened too early for us to be able to represent a 7 very often.

I think an fsdr is likely to be 3! If you had flopped quads or a full somehow (I wouldn't open 44) you'd likely not raise turn, but I'm a spew tard obviously this hand.

I also think given the special nature of the cold callers not ptotecting your hand here in a good spot is wrong. Even being crushed by bbs range.

proto didn't cap it pf

definitely not raise or fold. if it's raised and reraised behind you then ofc fold. but if everybody calls after you call, you get to see the turn and potentially raise or cd or fold depending on what falls.

i think no matter what you should be calling here (conversely i'm happier to raise if it were HU b/c a lot of players would call and then go for the kr on the turn, which i'd check behind and call a river bet).

I'm not even considering doing anything other than calling the flop with the intention of trying to showdown cheaply.

Dumb question but is it because we did not cap pf, our hands his almost face up and we have super bad relative position to the field?
Pretty great to read good players saying what is the proper decision but not much factors are enumerated.
Personally i tough raising was good to try to thin the field ( we had good position for it) but i guess not much fold will happen on this board, so i figure this must be it ?

It's because your hand versus a good BB's range here is crushed. "Thinning the field" doesn't do you much good if it doesn't have any (positive) impact on your equity in the pot, and only serves to get you heads up against a dominating range.

So you are saying that if we did raise flop, all fold but BB that would 3bet.
All the equity would go into BB hands and non for us?

I am very surprised if that would be the case but, if it is so, a lot of my thinking in certain spot will change drastically
Thx

If he's ahead it does, and when he 3bets he's ahead always