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Bet this flop?

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11-09-2017 , 10:56 AM

mongidig

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 5,682

UTG limps...he's super loose and somewhat laggy pre.

MP limps...verry loose. Very passive post flop.

HJ raises....He's an avereage weak Reg.

I 3 bet next in with KKs....I probably have a taggish image although I have been getting a lot of raisable hands.

Button calls....he is super loose. Fit or fold post in mw pots.

Blinds fold and the rest call.

Ad7c6s...checked to me....do I bet or check?

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11-09-2017 , 05:15 PM

Frankie Fuzz

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 534

This is a really big pot and I'd prefer not to give any free cards to hands like 55 or JT that have backdoor draws. I think it's worth it to bet and try to knock those hands out. If it's 2 back to you, then you have an easy fold.

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11-09-2017 , 05:17 PM

leavesofliberty

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 6,296

It's not an automatic fold, but you do have to carefully assess the probability that your opponent is bluffing before continuing with the hand.

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11-09-2017 , 07:34 PM

jdr0317

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Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 8,231

If I was going to bet a hand here, it'd much more likely be 88 than KK.

If we do bet, it's a trivial fold if there's a raise and 3 bet in front of us. It would need to be world class spazzes at work for me to want to continue to that action.

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11-09-2017 , 08:55 PM

chillrob

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Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 20,983

Quote:

Originally Posted by leavesofliberty

It's not an automatic fold, but you do have to carefully assess the probability that your opponent is bluffing before continuing with the hand.

Huh?

Anyway, I check here every time. Maybe 10% chance no one made a pair of aces?

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11-09-2017 , 11:51 PM

asmitty

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,447

Close spot. Given your description of button, I bet flop and check back a whole lot of turn cards. I'd check back if there were one more player or if you were last to act on the flop though.

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11-10-2017 , 01:59 AM

leavesofliberty

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Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 6,296

I'm just saying, know your opponent, and some will rep the ace here with absolutely nothing, and not even a draw. Without prior knowledge you can safely fold if raised.

If you check here don't you balance w your weakest aces and check them also?

I'd bet against predictable players who will let me know if I'm behind otherwise check w weak aces, big pairs and other hands that belong in a check range.

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11-10-2017 , 02:08 AM

chillrob

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Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 20,983

Quote:

Originally Posted by leavesofliberty

If you check here don't you balance w your weakest aces and check them also?

I don't think you really need to worry about balance on a fairly dry Ace high flop with 5 players.

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11-10-2017 , 03:07 AM

Frankie Fuzz

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 534

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillrob

I don't think you really need to worry about balance on a fairly dry Ace high flop with 5 players.

I think it’s pretty exploitable if you’re only checking KK or other underpairs here. Your hand is basically face up and HJ has the chance to isolate one of the weaker players either on the flop or turn and potentially make you fold the best hand which is a catastrophe in a pot of this size. Say the flop gets checked through and the turn is a J. UTG bets JT or T9s or something and now HJ can raise with JQ for example. We can debate how frequently something like this happens, but I think it happens often enough to be a concern.

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11-10-2017 , 03:14 AM

#10

chillrob

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Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 20,983

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frankie Fuzz

I'm not planning to show down here unless I spike a set anyway, absent something really unusual like at least 2 of the streets being checked through. I think paying more than one bet to see a showdown here is generally going to be a big mistake. You are just so rarely good here that I don't mind being occasionally exploited. If you're really worried about it I think it would be better to slowplay a set for deception than to put in a lot of bets with an underpair.

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11-15-2017 , 06:09 PM

#11

AlanBostick

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Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 11,488

Quote:

Originally Posted by leavesofliberty

If you check here don't you balance w your weakest aces and check them also?

What's the weakest ace with which you are going to 3! in the cutoff after the hijack raises two loose callers? A9s, maybe?

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11-15-2017 , 06:13 PM

#12

AlanBostick

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Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 11,488

Assign ranges to everyone, and count combinations, accounting for the cards that we know. What is the probability that no one else has an ace?

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11-15-2017 , 06:17 PM

#13

leavesofliberty

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Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 6,296

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlanBostick

What's the weakest ace with which you are going to 3! in the cutoff after the hijack raises two loose callers? A9s, maybe?

I'm curious what others think, but I think you can turn your lowest AXs in your 3-bet range and turn it into a bluff catcher to tune down the aggression and solidify your check-backs.

Actually scratch that, w/ 5 players you should just bet all your aces and check KK. Maybe in like a 3 players situation you can throw in a value-check here and there. But with 4 or more players I would not.

Last edited by leavesofliberty; 11-15-2017 at 06:43 PM.

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11-15-2017 , 06:55 PM

#14

leavesofliberty

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Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 6,296

Anyone who's going to try to steal the pot still needs to steal it from the other three players in the 5 way situation, so you don't need to play cop with the KK. If did happen to bet KK, and are check-raised, you can safely assume you're behind without a very strong reason to think otherwise. It's a very gross spot if you get check-raised with KK otf.

Last edited by leavesofliberty; 11-15-2017 at 07:12 PM. Reason: taking 30 days off guys

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11-19-2017 , 02:03 AM

#15

pokerchris

banned

Join Date: Oct 2017 Posts: 202

pissy fold.

Don't understand why it is any other decision. you are behind with two outs.

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11-20-2017 , 02:33 PM

#16

phunkphish

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,902

Wdf, Two people have suggested fold when there isn't a bet in front of us.

Against typical passive opponents, I expect them never to xr unless they have AQ+. So, bet flop, then depending on number of players remaining and turn card, likely bet turn, check river.

The 67 matters a lot; it gives villains more immediate draws we want to protect against, as well as BD draws to protect against. On A92, eg, there is more reason to check.

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