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Old 11-15-2008, 08:50 PM   #1
jesse8888
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River decision with middling boat

I am in the small blind and I raise TT. The flop goes off 5 ways.

5 handed, 10 small bets

Q44

I bet and get only two callers, the bb about whom I know almost nothing and the button whose range at this point is weaker than ATC. The big blind is not a "solid regular" as I've never seen him before. He's also not a known fish. He's maybe 40 years old, Asian, and strikes me as "a tool".

3 handed, 6.5 big bets

Q

I bet, planning to fold to a raise. BB calls, Button folds. I plan to check-and-soul read on the river.


Heads up, 8.5 big bets

T

Now what? Is it a clear bet/fold? Bet-soul-read? I can't check, right? I mean, I finally have a hand....

Last edited by jesse8888; 11-15-2008 at 09:10 PM.
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Old 11-15-2008, 09:01 PM   #2
Bremen
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Re: Bad River IMO

bet/call. BB will have a 4 here often enough.

Does anyone else like raising a field out of the SB with TT? I don't.
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Old 11-15-2008, 11:52 PM   #3
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Re: Bad River IMO

What do you mean you "finally" have a hand? Nobody's raised yet. BB is more likely to have a 4 than a Q, as he would be more likely to have raised the flop with a Q than a 4. Then when the Q came off on the turn and you still fired, he might just now call with a 4. He might call you down here with a hand as weak as an ace, so I'd bet-call.
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Old 11-16-2008, 12:00 AM   #4
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Re: Bad River IMO

Seems like a bet/fold, even though that is kind of sick. Why would he raise a 4 here and not raise it on the turn? If he had a Q, he might flat the turn hoping to keep button around, so if he raises I'd think he's way more likely to have a Q than a 4. But people with a Q are pretty likely to just raise this flop too. So I think he has a 4 or some pocket pair and will just call if you bet. But often when the Q rolls off on the turn you can pick up a super obvious tell that a guy is pissed when his flopped trips get counterfeited. If you didn't see that, then he doesn't have a 4.

My head hurts.
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Old 11-16-2008, 12:15 AM   #5
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Re: Bad River IMO

I would definitely bet river because I think you pick up value vs. a lone Ace or some random pp. I think I lean more towards bet-fold than bet-call.

I would strong consider checking the turn though. Definitely depends on who villains are.
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Old 11-16-2008, 05:54 AM   #6
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Re: Bad River IMO

Quote:
Originally Posted by private joker View Post
But often when the Q rolls off on the turn you can pick up a super obvious tell that a guy is pissed when his flopped trips get counterfeited. If you didn't see that, then he doesn't have a 4.

My head hurts.
Didn't see it, and I would have.
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Old 11-16-2008, 05:55 AM   #7
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Re: Bad River IMO

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Originally Posted by Captain Ron View Post
I would strong consider checking the turn though. Definitely depends on who villains are.
And then fold if he bets? I refuse.
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Old 11-16-2008, 11:50 AM   #8
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Re: Bad River IMO

Bet/Fold. The only hands he'll bet if you check are an 4 or a Q but he will call with any pp or A high. You will only get bluff raised by guys like that so infrequently that the odds don't justify a call so you basically only get raised by a Q
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Old 11-16-2008, 05:14 PM   #9
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Re: Bad River IMO

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Originally Posted by jesse8888 View Post
And then fold if he bets? I refuse.
No, but if you check and it goes bet-raise, fold.

If it goes check, bet, I would call.

If it goes bet, fold, then I would have to depend on villain's tendencies.

But this also strongly depends on villains' ATC on the flop tendencies.
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Old 11-16-2008, 10:48 PM   #10
9.5fingershuffle
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Re: Bad River IMO

Live 20/40ers are so scared that they are not raising a 4 on this board after Jessee bets every street.
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Old 11-17-2008, 12:48 PM   #11
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Re: Bad River IMO

Check/fold. He probably has quads.
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Old 11-17-2008, 02:10 PM   #12
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Re: Bad River IMO

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Originally Posted by that_pope View Post
Check/fold. He probably has quads.
Winnah. I bet/called and dude rolled pocket 4s.
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