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ATs fire again?

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07-14-2022 , 12:30 PM

mongidig

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 5,677

8 handed

Lag opens UTG, loose passive calls LJ, HJ 3bets...He has 3 bet in similar spots with QJo, J8o, I cap AsTs on the button.

Js8d8c...It's checked to me and I bet and all call.

Js8d8c6h...It's checked to me. Should I fire again? I'm not getting a better Ace to fold. Someone could be slow playing an 8. Someone could be just calling down a J in fear of my cap. It's possible they all are drawing.

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07-14-2022 , 02:31 PM

ninefingershuffle

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,543

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07-15-2022 , 01:07 PM

maka2184

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,537

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongidig

I'd probably check turn but you put both range as drawing.

In that case you can cbet turn based on read & ranges.

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07-16-2022 , 07:50 PM

Grease

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 6,459

Ew. Do you think any better aces fold? If yes, then maybe there is value in bluffing out better hands and getting value from draws.

But I think I check and try to spike something. We could be drawing extremely thin.

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07-16-2022 , 08:55 PM

checkraisdraw

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 2,878

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongidig

Just check. Betting is too much of a parlay.

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07-18-2022 , 05:01 PM

hardinthepaint

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2018 Posts: 596

Check, but you might need to bluff catch on the river.

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07-20-2022 , 05:42 AM

checkraisdraw

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Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 2,878

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongidig

I actually think mixing in some fires here is pretty good. Just have to know when the right time is. I don’t think this is it because there are too many loose players in there and it’s a big pot. If you’re not getting a better ace to fold then a bet is terrible.

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07-22-2022 , 08:08 PM

maka2184

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,537

Quote:

Originally Posted by checkraisdraw

+1

Ninefingershuffle folds AT on river in much different board / thread so I'll cbet turn & river by mixing it up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle

The only hand you beat is kJ/kt unless he’s the kind of guy to do this with 56s or whatever.

You have 4-10 outs. I usually call turn here and fold river unimproved

Call turn? - Medium Stakes Poker Forum - Medium Stakes Limit Holdem
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/5.../#post57758451

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07-23-2022 , 03:47 PM

chillrob

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Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 20,908

I get these guys are loose, but your hand is so easily dominated...I just fold preflop.

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07-25-2022 , 09:06 PM

#10

maka2184

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,537

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillrob

I get these guys are loose, but your hand is so easily dominated...I just fold preflop.

-1

Vs LAG fish UTG 8 handed pfr,
loose passive LJ fish cold call,
HJ LAG fish 3bet PF QJo / J8o 3bet similar spot, think ATs is must 4 bet on BTN.

Range for me is probably ATs+, 99+, QJs+, KJs+, KQo+ for me on BTN as mongidig / OP on BTN.

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07-27-2022 , 07:40 PM

#11

chillrob

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Quote:

Originally Posted by maka2184

You know these guys don't always have the bottom of their ranges, right?

I'd love to see a reasonable pre-flop range for these three guys that shows you're a big favorite.

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07-28-2022 , 12:07 AM

#12

ninefingershuffle

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,543

I mean, this is a much better spot for four bets on the button that it is for three bets in the small blind.

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07-28-2022 , 12:31 AM

#13

checkraisdraw

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 2,878

Is it ok to 4bet this hand just for fun?

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07-28-2022 , 02:29 AM

#14

chillrob

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Quote:

Originally Posted by checkraisdraw

Is it ok to 4bet this hand just for fun?

It's ok to make any play you want if you don't care about it being profitable or not.

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07-28-2022 , 05:01 AM

#15

checkraisdraw

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Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 2,878

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillrob

It's ok to make any play you want if you don't care about it being profitable or not.

So judging by how bad you think this play is then you probably see AJs as a fold too. If not, I don’t think it can be that much of a loser to play just below the bottom of your range.

Tbh in hindsight I probably prefer checking flop since a jack or an eight is pretty likely here and we have some equity here with backdoor draws.

Btw given how mega passive the field played after the flop, I like the cap even better because they’re literally “lol check to the raiser” like it’s 2004

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07-28-2022 , 11:48 AM

#16

mongidig

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Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 5,677

Quote:

Originally Posted by checkraisdraw

Checking to the raiser is still pretty standard in my games. I wouldn't consider the calls on this flop to be "Mega passive". This is a very peelable flop in a huge pot. Anybody with a J may play cautiously in this capped pot. I do think someone with an 8 may lol slow play. I figured betting the flop was best since I had overrept my hand. I figured I could check back the turn and get a free look at the river. If I check the flop somebody would bet the turn for sure and I would have to fold. You may be right about checking the flop. There is a non zero chance it gets CR and I would have to peel. It's unlikely I was gonna get many or any folds.

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07-28-2022 , 12:06 PM

#17

mongidig

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 5,677

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillrob

I get these guys are loose, but your hand is so easily dominated...I just fold preflop.

I think this is just a get your money in there situation. All three of the players entering the pot before me are some level of bad. I put the UTG on about a 17% ish opening range. The cold caller is in there with around 30% of his hands with the top of the range decapitated. The three better is interesting. He can show up with junk like J8o sometimes but I wouldn't call him a maniac. He's a sneaky type who might also just call here with AA's. Even if I give him a reasonable 3 bet range I still have around 25% equity. My hand plays well post flop and I am on the button. I'm not overly concerned with domination against this crew.

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07-28-2022 , 01:39 PM

#18

RosaParks1

adept

Join Date: Sep 2018 Posts: 812

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillrob

You know these guys don't always have the bottom of their ranges, right?

this is a good sentence

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07-28-2022 , 01:49 PM

#19

chillrob

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Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 20,908

Quote:

Originally Posted by checkraisdraw

So judging by how bad you think this play is then you probably see AJs as a fold too. If not, I don’t think it can be that much of a loser to play just below the bottom of your range.

AJs is close. I more than likely would fold it, but I wouldn't have posted to criticize it either. I don't think the ATs cap was a huge money spewer or anything, I just think it wasn't likely the best play.

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07-30-2022 , 12:32 PM

#20

maka2184

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,537

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle

I mean, this is a much better spot for four bets on the button that it is for three bets in the small blind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by checkraisdraw

Is it ok to 4bet this hand just for fun?

4 bet preflop on Button is for value fyi.

Cannot imagine solvers, Equilab, Stove , etc having ATs on button not profitable

Vs LAG fish UTG 8 handed pfr,
loose passive LJ fish cold call,
HJ LAG fish 3bet PF QJo / J8o 3bet similar spot, think ATs is must 4 bet for value.

No gamble, no future

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08-01-2022 , 03:44 PM

#21

Montrealcorp

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Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 13,356

Why not check flop ?

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08-01-2022 , 10:27 PM

#22

maka2184

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,537

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montrealcorp

Why not check flop ?

-1

Think too much value on flop IMO:
Js8d8c

VS

Lag opens UTG (Fish1), loose passive calls LJ (Fish2), HJ (Fish3) 3bets...He has 3 bet in similar spots with QJo

Checking flop is an option but no gamble no future

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08-02-2022 , 12:00 AM

#23

Montrealcorp

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Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 13,356

IF , you have the best hand pf , seem this flop hit their range more than yours ?
4 ways ?
Yes they do have bad hands but u still have a lag (not maniac?) raise utg ?
Imo if u are still ahead it’s very slightly while getting c/r on the flop seem a disaster to me when so many turn card could improve your hand to a runner runner draw .

Obv if I had AK for example I would cbet .

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08-02-2022 , 09:03 PM

#24

CrazyLond

veteran

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,931

You're not in good shape here and are lucky no one check-raised the flop. Take the free card and try to improve. Maybe you can call on the river if you're close to closing the action.

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08-03-2022 , 10:46 PM

#25

maka2184

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,537

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyLond

You're not in good shape here and are lucky no one check-raised the flop. Take the free card and try to improve. Maybe you can call on the river if you're close to closing the action.

+1

Js8d8c6h

I'd cbet flop & turn but likely my leak.

6h turn enable high % UTG LAG or HJ LAG to raise draws so turn check makes sense.

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