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Aces from the SB Aces from the SB

12-24-2017 , 10:25 PM
80/160

9 handed

Folds around to the button who opens. I 3-bet two red aces. BB comes along(!), button caps. Me and button have history. Me and BB have history. BB and button do not have too many hours logged.

Flop comes Q, x, y all diamonds. I lead(?), bb raises, button 3-bets, I call(?), bb calls.

Turn is a non diamond card. I check, big blind checks, button bets, I call(?), big blind calls.

River is a queen. I check, big blind bets, button calls. Fold or call(?)

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Reads and thoughts. Button has been playing snug so far, but his cap preflop should be 99+ AQs+, and AKo sometimes. BB is a decent player who doesn't out of line often, but losing thus far. On the flop, button's 3 bet = AQss, and QQ+. River is a puke card, but I guess I care more about the flop and turn decisions.
Aces from the SB Quote
12-25-2017 , 12:49 AM
What was x and y? Low gap cards like 25, 37, 48? Or higher like 69, 2T, 4T
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12-25-2017 , 03:20 AM
I think it was 5 and 8 or 5 and 3 but straight draw irrelevant on this board
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12-25-2017 , 05:40 AM
I really don't think hero can fold river, especially after passive turn: villain could still have kk right?

Flop seems ok, keeping bb in when he might fold to a cap is probably a plus
Turn is interesting b/c, x/c and xr all seem viable, I think I prefer bc

Last edited by monikrazy; 12-25-2017 at 05:50 AM.
Aces from the SB Quote
12-25-2017 , 07:18 AM
I would have c/r flop. As played, c/r turn
Aces from the SB Quote
12-25-2017 , 01:57 PM
With the Ace of diamonds I would put in more action on the flop. I prefer to put in extra bets with two cards to come and hopefully 3-way vs the turn with double sized bets, only one card to come and possibly HU.
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12-25-2017 , 09:58 PM
Why did you donk the flop?
Aces from the SB Quote
12-26-2017 , 03:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdr0317
Why did you donk the flop?
I think it's a trivially easy lead - you have a very strong made hand, plenty of outs if you are raised, and button should check back stuff like black AK quite a bit of the time I'd think. I'd prefer to cap the flop and go from there though.

The turn looks fine to me as played. I think you beat the BB like 100% of the time, but it sucks to get 3bet and I'd rather let the BB stay in with 5 or fewer outs. (Unfortunately, it looks like the Qx was one of those outs, but I still don't think I can fold the river.)
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12-26-2017 , 07:20 AM
These awkward turn and river spots might be a good reason to keep pushing the flop, and follow through on all turns. Once it goes B/R/3 on the flop, I see no reason to change that plan.
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12-26-2017 , 09:59 AM
I like the flop lead. then cap that ish on the flop.

river is pretty rough. call I guess.
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12-26-2017 , 01:21 PM
I think flop lead is quite silly. Nobody checks their capping range on any flop and our hand doesn’t even mind giving free cards (they are drawing basically dead when they take them)
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12-26-2017 , 01:31 PM
DD, the 3-way nature of the pot doesn't make you want to fast play?
Checking seems like we might miss multiple bets. Yes we have a very strong hand, but it's so strong we want action.
Aces from the SB Quote
12-26-2017 , 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dadjoey
Reads and thoughts. Button has been playing snug so far, but his cap preflop should be 99+ AQs+, and AKo sometimes. BB is a decent player who doesn't out of line often, but losing thus far. On the flop, button's 3 bet = AQss, and QQ+. River is a puke card, but I guess I care more about the flop and turn decisions.
1) In general, a good player OTB should be able to profitably cap pre much wider than what you showed. Capping your own BTN raise is very different than capping two EP raises. Capping exactly 99+ with some AQ/AK is very bad to me. Capping wide also makes sense if other players have tendency to "check to raiser".

2) other cards on flop absolutely matter. BB can have all sorts of low suited connectors or A rag with a straight draw, or small PP with bdsd. We need to know whether to price them out.

3) on the turn, bb has wide range and we only lose to 3combos of BTNs qq while crushing more combos of KK/AQ. If wrong, we have outs. Given your ranging of BTN it's a clear as day raise for value.

4) I prefer flop xr, on the basis of how incredibly snug BTN sounds. This time it went raise raise after we lead out. Given player reads, most of the time I'd expect passive call-calls all the way down. The best way to get more bets into the pot is by checking to BTNs tight PF range and let him lead flop. If flop was low-low-low, then we could plan to b/3b to induce a raise from 99-QQ. Not with Q-lo-lo flop

Last edited by phunkphish; 12-26-2017 at 03:35 PM.
Aces from the SB Quote
12-26-2017 , 08:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brick
DD, the 3-way nature of the pot doesn't make you want to fast play?
Checking seems like we might miss multiple bets. Yes we have a very strong hand, but it's so strong we want action.
No one checks.
Aces from the SB Quote
12-27-2017 , 02:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by phunkphish
1) In general, a good player OTB should be able to profitably cap pre much wider than what you showed. Capping your own BTN raise is very different than capping two EP raises. Capping exactly 99+ with some AQ/AK is very bad to me. Capping wide also makes sense if other players have tendency to "check to raiser".
I agree. In this case Button rarely mixes in capping light from the button or conditionally raise capping OOP lighter for value.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phunkphish

2) other cards on flop absolutely matter. BB can have all sorts of low suited connectors or A rag with a straight draw, or small PP with bdsd. We need to know whether to price them out.
Thanks. I'll make the effort to detail exact cards in future threads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phunkphish
3) on the turn, bb has wide range and we only lose to 3combos of BTNs qq while crushing more combos of KK/AQ. If wrong, we have outs. Given your ranging of BTN it's a clear as day raise for value.
That's what I was trying to evaluate at game speed, the number of combos. I block the nut flush and if button does not have the K of diamonds he would be hard pressed to 3-bet (<50%) if he did have QQ or KK combos.
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12-27-2017 , 02:49 PM
Results:

Spoiler:

I folded the river. Button shows AQcc, BB shows QJxx. Nice, one outed. 3 outs to lose on the turn.
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12-27-2017 , 03:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dadjoey
3 outs to lose on the turn.
no thank you, and bad math
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