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8/16 kill pot - 16/32... fold flop? 8/16 kill pot - 16/32... fold flop?

05-21-2010 , 05:29 PM
No real good reads. Just a bunch of typical 8/16 calling stations especially villian 1 who is an annoying ass 48 something overweight female blonde who deals at CAZ also, and literally calls 97% of my raises and it is starting to frustrate me. Villian 2 is a white 50 something guy who has a wsop hat on and seems competent after him being at table for 45 mins or so, having discussed 1 or 2 hands with him since he has sat down. Villian 3 no idea he is even at the table.

Villian 3 limps UTG. I have aq unsuited... I raise in mp1... villian 1 cold calls in small blind and villian 2 cold calls in BB and villian 3 calls.

Flop comes As 10h 2 h.

check check check, hero bets, villian 1 raises, villian 2 cold calls and has maybe 1 more bet worth in his stack (although I don't notice this during hand) and villian 3 cold calls...

I.....fold?

Remember, this is an 8/16 game and maybe 3% of the players reraise with AQ and AK preflop.
8/16 kill pot - 16/32... fold flop? Quote
05-21-2010 , 05:33 PM
youre closing the action and its only one more bet. you could still have the best hand. if youre behind you can pickup two pair or a gutshot on the turn. if you have the Qh, its even more of a horrendous fold. plus if someone has A2 or AT or T2, you can counterfeit them on the turn and river.
8/16 kill pot - 16/32... fold flop? Quote
05-21-2010 , 05:37 PM
fold? no. above post makes great point about closing the action, we def want to see the turn here...also agree we could still be ahead of flush draws, Ax hands, you are worried about A10, or a set of ducks i suppose(the only hand you are really in trouble against to justify a fold)AK? really? Also, did you have a heart?

Not a technical analysis by any means but by my 7 years of playing hold em analysis this is def a call.
8/16 kill pot - 16/32... fold flop? Quote
05-21-2010 , 08:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RudeboyOi
youre closing the action and its only one more bet. you could still have the best hand. if youre behind you can pickup two pair or a gutshot on the turn. if you have the Qh, its even more of a horrendous fold. plus if someone has A2 or AT or T2, you can counterfeit them on the turn and river.
True...

it wasn't queen of hearts I am almost positive.

My thinking was at the time was I am playing at best for a split. a raise and 2 cold callers in a kill pot... and these are 8/16 players ... where raising and calling two in their mind is probably similar to paying their mortgage each month in a 16/32 structure.
8/16 kill pot - 16/32... fold flop? Quote
05-21-2010 , 09:58 PM
The place for hero folds is the turn IMO. You can't fold here, not with this much hand. They can have AJ right?
8/16 kill pot - 16/32... fold flop? Quote
05-22-2010 , 07:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jesse8888
The place for hero folds is the turn IMO. You can't fold here, not with this much hand. They can have AJ right?
+1
8/16 kill pot - 16/32... fold flop? Quote
05-22-2010 , 11:35 AM
You're getting 15:1 (or more; who was the killer?) and there can be no further action. You have top pair with a strong overcard kicker. A-K constitutes 8 possibilities of the hundreds that they might have limped or called your preflop raise with. They might have K-Q or K-J or a heart draw or A-x. The pot is big; you shouldn't be looking for reasons to fold, but ways to win the pot. I'd 3-bet here ten times for every one time I'd fold.

And if you don't remember whether you had the Qh, you need to be payiing more attention to your game.
8/16 kill pot - 16/32... fold flop? Quote
05-22-2010 , 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyfox
You're getting 15:1 (or more; who was the killer?) and there can be no further action. You have top pair with a strong overcard kicker. A-K constitutes 8 possibilities of the hundreds that they might have limped or called your preflop raise with. They might have K-Q or K-J or a heart draw or A-x. The pot is big; you shouldn't be looking for reasons to fold, but ways to win the pot. I'd 3-bet here ten times for every one time I'd fold.

And if you don't remember whether you had the Qh, you need to be payiing more attention to your game.
I think villian 3 was the killer... so instead of him limping utg, he had the kill out there. My bad.

If it was just 1 person raising and the others fold... Yes I will 3 bet this all night long. When there is a raise, and 2 cold callers. My ways of winning the pot dramatically decrease. And when those two cold callers called a raise I am not thinking along mathmatical lines, I am thinking it is almost certain my AQ is close to dead at best. And obviously 1 of the 3 is on a heart draw, which further reduces my outs.
8/16 kill pot - 16/32... fold flop? Quote
05-22-2010 , 04:33 PM
wtf is going on here? raise.
8/16 kill pot - 16/32... fold flop? Quote
05-22-2010 , 04:53 PM
The lady calls 97% of her hands so at this point she could have ATC... she could have 22,A2,A10,22,1010, and any kind of flush possiblities. Shorty your going to stack off to 100% of the time because he has one more bet and he called a raise into a big pot and got a piece or a draw and is trying to get his stack back. the Cold Call is the only one that may worry me. If you have the Q in your hand I would be staying in this point. Other then that why not a 4 bet? if the lady 5 bets i think we can assume some kind of set. If she flats I would def think nutty heart draw with maybe a pair combo. The shorty will be getting it in regaurdless after calling off his entire stack. The cold call from the other villian is a mystery... with no info on player it would be hard to assume a range. Maybe something like a weaker Ace and assumes lady is on a heart draw and shotry as well. results of hand please
8/16 kill pot - 16/32... fold flop? Quote
05-22-2010 , 05:02 PM
Easy flop call, re-evaluate on turn.

AJ seems correct though
8/16 kill pot - 16/32... fold flop? Quote
05-22-2010 , 06:02 PM
I am speechless.
8/16 kill pot - 16/32... fold flop? Quote
05-22-2010 , 07:40 PM
I have the advantage of knowing who villain 1 is. She is a caller, not a check-raiser, unless she's 'sure' because she's incredibly MUBS'y so you are almost certainly behind right now and you have to guess just how far. I prob fold because I know that she'd never c/r me w/o a very strong hand but I don't know how she views you. Frankly I'm a bit surprised that you don't have a solid read on her style since you must've played quite a bit against her by now.

The above is very player specific, however. Against anybody else I call and see what happens on the turn.
8/16 kill pot - 16/32... fold flop? Quote
05-22-2010 , 07:43 PM
even if you're behind how can you fold for 1 more sb closing the action? just turn a Q
8/16 kill pot - 16/32... fold flop? Quote
05-22-2010 , 07:55 PM
Bec we say that we are going to fold if a Q doesn't come and we say that we won't call a river bet if a Q doesn't come but we somehow usually end up calling.

Edit: If it turns out she didn't have AK I'll buy OP lunch. I think I know who he is and he must know who I am so c'mon, OP, you might as well say hi.
8/16 kill pot - 16/32... fold flop? Quote
05-23-2010 , 01:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Beale
Bec we say that we are going to fold if a Q doesn't come and we say that we won't call a river bet if a Q doesn't come but we somehow usually end up calling.

Edit: If it turns out she didn't have AK I'll buy OP lunch. I think I know who he is and he must know who I am so c'mon, OP, you might as well say hi.
She didn't have AK.... she had AQ.... and villian 2... had AK.... and villian 3 folded to a busted flush draw.

So my read was right on knowing that I was behind on this particular hand, and I did fold to the raise. Obviously debatable if I should have called the raise and mathmatically i should have, but these situations are so few and far between thart I don't think I am losing much long term, especially if my read was dead on and turned out being right.

I don't know who you are, but i am sure I would recognize you if saw you, I am the guy who looks 17, but am 30 lol. Where we going for lunch?
8/16 kill pot - 16/32... fold flop? Quote
05-23-2010 , 01:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sex
No real good reads.
Yeah your read was dead on alright.
8/16 kill pot - 16/32... fold flop? Quote
05-23-2010 , 01:50 AM
I'll buy you lunch at the table. You have to guess who I am. Nah, I'll see if I'm right and ask you.
8/16 kill pot - 16/32... fold flop? Quote
05-23-2010 , 01:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sex
No real good reads.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MitchL
Yeah your read was dead on alright.
lol so awesome
8/16 kill pot - 16/32... fold flop? Quote
05-23-2010 , 08:52 AM
meaning given the action my read ended up being right. no real reads on players personally except being calling stations
8/16 kill pot - 16/32... fold flop? Quote
05-23-2010 , 12:01 PM
so wait what? cause someone had AK you think you made the right fold? i'm confused
8/16 kill pot - 16/32... fold flop? Quote
05-23-2010 , 12:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PardoG
so wait what? cause someone had AK you think you made the right fold? i'm confused
Exactly. And if they both had AJ this was a terrible fold. Simple, really.
8/16 kill pot - 16/32... fold flop? Quote
05-23-2010 , 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PardoG
so wait what? cause someone had AK you think you made the right fold? i'm confused
I guess? TBH i thought that I would have been lucky to be only up against AK having AQ given the action on the flop
8/16 kill pot - 16/32... fold flop? Quote
05-23-2010 , 03:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sex
I guess? TBH i thought that I would have been lucky to be only up against AK having AQ given the action on the flop
Is this a Pohuist gimmick acct?
8/16 kill pot - 16/32... fold flop? Quote
05-23-2010 , 03:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PardoG
so wait what? cause someone had AK you think you made the right fold? i'm confused
So given the action on the flop... how do you play that hand UI the rest of the way?

I realize that had I called the raise on the flop that that would have been fine, but then what? I got a raiser and 2 cold callers on a pretty harmless flop with top pair 2nd best kicker. Even if my queen does spike I'm still losing a considerable amount of the time to the flush by river and a set. And one of the other 2 has at LEAST AQ also... so really what is the point in putting in more cash?
8/16 kill pot - 16/32... fold flop? Quote

      
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