MitchL I don't know you but you must have the patience of a saint. I would just give up if I were you sex clearly doesn't want advice or help but just someone to say wow genius fold.

You got Mitch to make several substantive posts in this thread, that's as good of a feedback as you're going to get on this forum. He's an A player and advisor; I assume that's why you posted here, to get A advice. I'm a sensitive guy and I didn't see any belittling or him being an ass. At worst, he gave you a little tough love. As you revealed more information--such as the fact that you were playing a little scared as you wanted to book a win--he reacted accordingly.

You know the game and the players better than we do. If you thought they could have A-K or A-Q, then you factor that into the equation and act accordingly. There's no reason to post the hand if we're going to give advice that can be ignored since we don't know the players. All we can do is give our best opinions based on the information you provide.

By the power vested in me by His Majesty Norton II, Emperor of the United States and Protector of Mexico, I hereby grant irrevocably and in perpetuity the title of King of Fold to the poster known on the Two Plus Two Forums as sex.

Wear it with pride, soldier.

OP you are awesome, from now one i'll always remember to fold TPGK to a flop CR by a loose passive unless i'm getting at least 35:1. thank you!!!

ha

Joshua Abraham Norton (c. 1819[2] – January 8, 1880), the self-proclaimed His Imperial Majesty Emperor Norton I, was a celebrated citizen of San Francisco, California, who in 1859 proclaimed himself "Emperor of these United States"[3] and subsequently "Protector of Mexico".[4]

Born in London, Norton spent most of his early life in South Africa. He emigrated to San Francisco in 1849 after receiving a bequest of $40,000 from his father's estate. Norton initially made a living as a businessman, but he lost his fortune investing in Peruvian rice.[5]

After losing a lawsuit in which he tried to void his rice contract, Norton left San Francisco. He returned a few years later, apparently mentally unbalanced, claiming to be the emperor of the United States.[6] Although he had no political power, and his influence extended only so far as he was humored by those around him, he was treated deferentially in San Francisco, and currency issued in his name was honored in the establishments he frequented.

hi OP,

I'm a long time lurker on this forum and SSHE, very rarely poster. You might be able to appreciate my perspective as an outsider.

Many veteran posters in this thread can be a little abrasive sometimes when making their points, but I have always found that checking your ego at the door and trying to understand the points they are trying to make is very useful.

Poker is a funny game, the edges we have on our opponents is significantly based on our ability to judge our actions independent of the immediate results. The experience of veterans like MitchL can help you with that.

I think part of the problem is a disconnect between your and everyone else's terminology. What you call reads, is what people here call assigning ranges to opponents. Reads are person-specific betting patterns or tells based on physical evidence. The general approach we follow is to use our reads to assign a range to our opponents and then decide our action based on equity of our hand, playability on later streets and the price we need to pay (the pot odds). This is the real math, and used properly it can be quite powerful. Any other aspect of the game can be plugged in by modifying the factors appropriately (discounting as you call it)

In this context, you can see why people are telling you why your fold was bad. You only need to be wrong about 1 in 30 times for you to lose money here. Can you really be that sure however strong your reads are?

You might find it more useful to post at the Small Stakes forum. This hand seems to play more like one of theirs and you might find it more suitable to your learning style.

Very good post sir.

Another thing, it might seem like MitchL is unfairly pounding on you, when you know you did the wrong thing math-wise, you were thinking about session results etc. But the way you describe your hands (e.g. focusing on the results) will influence your thought process and your actions the next time you play a similar hand. Fuzzy analysis leads to fuzzy reasoning and you end up playing like 90% of your opponents. If you want to maximize your profit, you need to do the hard work to change your mindset.

He can pound on me. I have thick skin...

but he repeated the same thing like 3 different times. so at that point I started to cry and had to fire back lol.

Then I get to the cardroom today and someone comes up to me and says a few people in the game said I should think about changing my 2+2 name...too funny

Its been fun, off to the nickels and dimes limit forum

all i have to say is how do you west coasters play 4/8, 8/16, 9/18 all the time? It makes me nervous those odd limits and I fear weird 2 dollar and 3 dollar chips, i've had some recurring nightmares about them. I like nice even east coast numbers like 5/10 10/20, 20/40, 15/30 etc just sayin'

You should lobby to get rid of the 5-10 for a 6-12 and to change the 10-20 into a 9-18. There is a tremendous difference in the action the multi-chip games produce. At CAZ the 8-16 killed off the miserable, no action, 10-20.

10-20 w/ $2 chips would be loltastic but there's no chance of that happening.

Its the same chip structure just a different amount. Now the old 8/16 game at Bellagio with no 2 dollar chips was super annoying.

Check this out though, at borgata we got a pink chip game going (2.50 chips they usually only use for blackjack), it was 7.50/15 I believe...you should have seen the stacks at the table, racks upon racks, it was funny for awhile but I think the novelty wore off as it rarely goes anymore

7.5/15 is a 3 chip structure w/ 2.5 chips. So unless people were buying racks upon racks it wouldnt be any different than 6/12 with 2 dollar chips or 15/30 with nickels.

back in the day at my local Indian casino I used to play a 6/12 game with $1 chips. Some of the hands played like NL where you had to slowly move entire stacks around to raise. Imagine having to cold-3-bet a turn! take two stacks, remove 4 chips from one of them and slide the stacks forward. Then the dealer would pull in all the bets into the pot. the pots were enormous... wasn't nearly as fun when they introduced $5 chips in the game and made it a mixed chip game

At Commerce, the 8-16 is a half-kill game. Whenever there's a kill pot, at least 50% of the bets are put into the pot in the wrong amount. At Hollywood Park (or at least it used to be this way), the 25-50 is played with $5 chips. So if you wish to 3-bet the turn, it takes 30 chips to do so.

Once upon a time, I got a call from a 2+2er who was having some fellow 2+2ers up to his room for silly poker, beer and conversation. He said, "Are you here yet? You are? Good. Stop at the poker room and bring up eight hundred dollars in one-dollar chips."

I did. Best exercise I ever got was carrying them from the poker room to the hotel room.

the CAZ 8/16 is played with $2 chips and kills to 16-32. if you want to 3bet the turn in that game, it takes 48 chips.

I have twice been able to c/r the turn in a kill pot with my patented move of cutting out 12 red chips and 2 blue chips.

I'm trying to sprinkle a little fairy dust here Mitch, just let it happen

My AC Twitter friends tweet enthusiastically about this game every week. Are they just trying to lure people in?

^^^ yeah pretty much, but no seriously it's a lot of fun and people splash around so much because the majority who play it are 2+2 who play much higher so everyone grabs drinks and has a good time, and it does attract a lot of fish...it hasn't gone regularly in awwwhile though