We'd all be better poker players if we never read this drivel

I think folding on this spot is fine.

I think smaller PPs play pretty well, esp compared to small suited connectors. I provided some reasoning.

What was the point of your post?

"I'm an amazing handreader and always get to showdown when I'm ahead and always fold when I'm behind" is solid logical reasoning and supports playing these hands but the extent to which you overestimate your ability is ridiculous

Ya this is ultra important. I mean with clairvoyance, 32o is probably a profitable hand to play.

I still think this is a fold pre. Raise is the less bad option to enter the pot versus call.

Agree with Fold preflop

My post is in regard to DD. He says 66 is worse than suited cards or high cards. I disagree. 66 is at least better than 67s. straight equity calculations show this. Re implied odds, It's not as hard to play as people think. Re domination, 66 can dominate 3way when one person has a smaller pair and one person over cards. 67s or JQ have much fewer instances of dominating, and about as many situations when dominated.

I don’t know how you can read my earlier post and conclude that I think 76s is a better hand than 66. Like I could have been more clear but I don’t see that at all. Are other people reading it that way? Am I going crazy? All I said was if you have a borderline hand and aren’t sure what to do, a good rule of thumb is play suited hands more than offsuit ones, play high cards more than small cards including small pairs. Like 66 will run similar in equity to AQ vs a lot of ranges but AQ plays way better.

Yeah phunkphish might as well have said 72s. 76s is obv not a reasonable comparison

Preflop
I would Fold> Raise >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Call
as in I would never cold call 3 bets.

If I was HERO and put UTG & UTG +1 at the weakest of the weakest ranges to be raising UTG and 3 betting UTG+1 to include hands like 22+ and 54suited+, then I may consider 4 betting Preflop but I'm a NIT Tag so would rather just fold preflop rather than GAMBBOOOOL like CDC.

Neither RAISING or Calling is preflop NOT how I play poker.
Would love to hear what expert LAGTAG like ChrisDaddyCool would say if he still posted or AvoidThe9to5 with his creative GTO analysis.

Flop
Hard to imagine this spot since I wouldn't be in it but if we assume UTG and UTG+1 and BB all have very weak ranges, I guess I would lean towards

C/R Flop > Chk Call Flop > Chk Call flop

Didn't calculate or assume ranges since it's too difficult to assume their ranges based on lack of information from HERO in OP. My apologies OP if you disclosed that later on, kind of got too long and didn't read all the responses except first one by JDR and DeathDonkey responses but I even skimmed those.

Tiger415, thank you for doing the actual analysis although I just skimmed that as well.

What's the reasoning behind "Raise >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Call".

-We are OOP. -It's already 3bets: BB is already dissuaded from continuing. Us making it 4bets has a small effect on getting BB's dead money. It's not like CO opened and we are OTB. If in a 5bet game, we increase our risk of putting in 5bets while dominated. It's really fine to split your range and have a decapitated flatting range. So many cons to 4b or fold, esp in this spot. I think people get stuck in hard and fast rules without adapting.


@stinkypete Cool Drive-bys?


@DD. 66 and AQ do not run close to equity in 3way pots. AQ is way ahead because it can dominate so many hands. 66 is also well ahead of TJs, and slightly ahead of JQs; not just 67s. You are underrating 66. The only reason to dismiss 66 is because of 'playability' -- ironically something you say is overrated compared to equity.

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
30%	29.17%	165,397	20,897
20%	32.19%	181,140	25,723
AsQd	38.64%	215,713	34,008

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
30%	31.00%	180,407	11,863
20%	35.72%	208,561	12,236
66	33.28%	198,035	3,930

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
30%	33.15%	189,015	20,705
20%	37.69%	216,896	19,452
TsJs	29.16%	168,558	13,736

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
24%	29.87%	169,176	21,937
16%	33.36%	186,542	28,992
AsQd	36.77%	202,662	37,726

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
24%	32.14%	187,211	11,874
16%	36.17%	211,209	12,251
66	31.70%	188,417	4,179

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
24%	33.05%	187,713	22,051
16%	39.03%	225,165	18,978
JsTs	27.92%	160,567	14,849

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
24%	32.32%	183,624	21,564
16%	38.51%	222,018	19,086
JsQs	29.17%	167,820	15,412

Please note we agree to Disagree and that DeathDonkey, BK, and StinkeyPete all have advocated folding regardless of whatever math you want to put out there to conclude you are correct.

Kindly keep playing this way of calling 3 cold as in my view that classifies you as having a leak regardless of whether other parts of your game are expert.

To answer your question, the reason why I fold preflop is that I think 66 plays poorly especially when calling 3 cold without the initiative in which you literally are guessing opponent hand ranges while being unable to rep strength if for example we 4 bet preflop and c-bet flop, turn, the river on certain run outs.

Familiar with 5 bet games as I used to play in Canterbury which if I recall was a 5 bet game.

Not familiar with cold callling 3 bets as I primary played 6max as a prop on AP or HUHU on Fulltilt and on AP while getting 100% rakeback as a prop on AP so being in a situation of facing 3 bets was rare for me when I used to play.

Now when I play, it's mainly the softest 20/40 half kill game at Horseshoe Hammond in which I do not encounter situation where facing 3 bets on SB I would consider calling with 66 as being correct.

Also, my BB/100 on Tracker from SB was horrendous as it should be for most which concludes me to attempt to avoid potentially -EV sitaution in which folding would mitigate the potential -BB/100 amount from the SB.

As stated earlier, lets just agree to disagree since it appears you are dead set firm on your opinion that 66 is correct to 3 cold on SB per actions posted by OP.

Regards,

Maka

If you play the hand, aiming to drive out the BB with a 4 bet is the sound play. A 5 bet would hurt, but you'd gain info there too. If you want a hand to flat with to balance flats with AA, KK, AKon, then do it with medium-to-big suited connectors which play better with the BB in. If you really really want to balance further, flat with 66-88 like 10% of the time only.

To break a tie on borderline hands like this I think:

- Will the game loosen up if a big action pot is played?
- Will it tilt anyone if I beat them in this pot?
- Will it be very good for my image if I mix it up?
- How good are my post-flop reads on these opponents?
- What's the rake?

Short-handed 20/40 is usually already a good high action game (if it gets tight and tough ppl will quit), with a fairly high rake, where your edges come from your opponent's biggish/amateurish mistakes. So I'd mostly just dump 66 at 20/40 and 40/80 and wait for a better spot, and probably play it 50% of the time at $60/120, all factors being average.

Everything here is gospel truth.

I fold this pf. And whatever the lowest pocket pair I do play in this situation, I just cap it.

^^ Raising and bloating the pot creates less FE, not more. "Taking the driver's seat" is very 1999. Agree that blindly applying BB preflop strategy to SB is wrong; as is blindly applying 'raise or fold' preflop is also bad.

If you want to fold 66 pre in this spot, that's fine. I would question whether you also fold JTs and QJs, since those perform even worse than 66. My conclusion is to accept that 66 is stronger than believed.

Against a raise and 3-bet from these positions? I fold JTs and QJs every day and twice on Sunday.

Against wide range maniacs in the CO and the button? I cap them.

In OP we are 5handed so it is wide range HJ v CO. That is pretty close to CO v BU.