20/40 temporarily 5 handed.

Lag/Tag opens UTG...solid TAG who is aware that UTG doesn't need much to be opening here 3 bets next in, folded to me in SB and I call with 66's, terrible super loose guy calls in BB, UTG calls.

AdAs2c...checked to the TAG who bets.

What's my play on the flop?

Fold pre.

As played, you can xr x to showdown for a low variance but potentially spewy line. You have an easy xf on the turn if someone cold calls behind and denying some equity could be beneficial here.

We'd need more of a read of what btn is cbetting here and calling a raise, too. If he's only betting overs + FD, pocket pairs and Ax, xr is total spew.

PF is fine. Description sounds like both players PF raisers could have as low as 22 in their range -- 66 could very well be dominating their ranges.

Raise or flat is fine. Remember it's okay to xr flop and donkcheck turn -- adjust depending on how many players behind you. Alternatively, its okay to flat flop and donkbet turn -- you can try to rep a slowplayed ace this way after gaining information.

Pre is pretty marginal when BB and HJ just call. We're way oop with break even-ish equity, imo. But our hand should be pretty straightforward to play post. Except when it's not, like in the OP.

Our hand gets somewhat worse when HJ or sometimes BB raises behind us. On balance I think I like folding best.

I'm happily calling two as the BB tho.

Yup. LOL at folding pf.

Fine. Let's play ball here.

So, even against wide ranges (and these ranges are wide, expecting a winning TAG to have 22 in their 3 bet range is pure lol), 66 is basically a 3 way flip. Plus, our call will give incentive for BB to continue (this is not good for us as pocket pairs perform worst in 4 way spots). And oh by the way, we're WOOP.

So simple question: You guys are getting 3:1 on your money immediate. Are you winning this pot > 25% of the time?

I fold pre here, we very rarely win when we dont flop it. I havent done the math but im guessing we're not quite there equity wise. On flop we have to check call one bet right? Fold if bet raise?

If we use my ranges, we defensibly do have the equity to continue. But calling is still a terrible option IMO.

If we're going to play this hand, we might as well cap it and near ensure BB's dead $ is in the middle, and maybe give ourselves some fold equity post flop. And I'm not taking a "flat my entire SB range" strategy for this exact same reason, so I'll never show up here w/ AA for "balance". It leaves all sorts of value and fold equity on the table, when we're in the position where being in the drivers seat w/ value and bluffs is the most important. The small blind and big blind are not the same thing and people need to stop discussing them as such. In this case, the BB gets a much better price immediately (3.75:1 v 3:1), and only the threat of one player reopening action behind them instead of 2. And people really underrate how much being out of position sucks.

I agree with the concept of capping here, and great response. Still am not capping this pre from the sb unless table is super soft. Id much rather cap something like 56s 67s 78s 99+ JTs KQs. This honestly doesnt seem like a difficult fold pre from the sb, while i think its a snap from the bb.

Agree that capping > calling but calling > folding imo. If hero plays well postflop, that is.

i cap pre if i think there is a chance the hijack (utg 5 handed) is folding (this line folds out a ton of ace rag type hands)
else, i probably just fold or cap either way depending on how risk-loving i am

as played,
the villain who's acted probably has Ax, 77+, 55-, broadway type, suited connectors. We beat some stuff.

the villain who hasn't acted probably has more Ax in their range than the 3bettor (someone check this)

the chance someone has 77+ or Ax between the 2 villain is probably high, but the pot is enormous, so

I'm fine with k/r on the flop and then just donk-check folding if the other villain calls 2 cold.

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

board: AA2

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
33% 6h	25.68%	145,511	17,683
20% 3h	36.76%	210,813	20,044
66	14.43%	85,569	2,373
33%	23.13%	130,948	16,150

seems like a huge parlay but I still like k/r to fold out broadway hands

k/c seems too weak to maximize EV and k/f at 14% on a polarizing board is probably okay but i like to win big pots

if V1 has A3+, A2s+, broadways, 33+
and V2 has ATo+, A4s+, broadways, 44+

then on AA2,
V1 has 88 combos of offsuit trips, 22 combos of suited trips, 6x16 combos of broadways, 7x6 combos of pairs that beat us

V2 has 32 combos of offsuit trips, 20 combos of suited trips, 4x16 combos of broadways, 7x6 combos of pairs that beat us

V1 has (54/206) combos that we beat
V2 has (64/158) combos that we beat

we have the best hand on the flop (54/206 * 64/158) of the time which is like 10%. this also assumes V2 cbets 100% of the time

i think k/r is bad now. probably better to just k/c and check/decide on the turn

People are too obsessed with raise or fold mentality PF.

In a 5bet game, raising is really bad. In a 4bet game, more defensible. having a decapitated flat range is not the end of the world -- it happens all the time in NL, where you can be punished harder. Putting in more money creates less FE post since you've bloated the pot. The difference between BB call 3b and 4b is minimal; 66 relative equity 3way or 4way is minimal -- I'm indifferent if BB calls or folds.

Pre is such an easy fold. I don’t think it’s even close.

yup

ah i thought it was CO open and btn 3b for some reason.

i still think 4b is fine if there's a chance HJ folds 2

5-handed, with a LAG opening wide and a TAG who knows this 3-betting? I must play bad.

Small pairs basically stink. The times they are dominated it goes really really poorly. And everyone plays every hand that dominates them so it happens a lot. 66 is close to a fold from sb vs a hijack raiser let alone a 3 bet. If you play a hand on the margins default to “suited” then “big cards”

I also share this sentiment. I'm surprised so many people want to get in there. woof

you have less than 1/3 equity with terrible reverse implieds

you often put in more bets behind postflop with almost no chance to improve your hand

you also fold the best hand pretty often postflop

even if your opponents are ABC tellboxes this isn't a very good spot

Strongly disagree with bolded. Lots to like about small-mid pairs.

Pairs are easy to play; you hope to hit a set. If you don't, try to get to showdown; fold flop/turn/river if needed. It goes really really poorly if you get too sticky chasing a 2outer when its obvious you are beat. It goes really really badly when you isoraise and end up putting in 3bets when you have 2 outs. Avoid doing those things.

66 does better than 67s in virtually any H/C sim. That means something.

Multiway pads your setmining IO. 2 or 3 way improves your odds of winning UI. They maintain their value in all situations. Smaller suited cards are very situational.

I most def will defer to BK and DD here, much better players than I. Thanks guys, something to think about.

i remember a small stakes shorthanded thread where leader said his default 3bet vs lojack, is 88+ (i use 77+ but w/e), and vs a hj i use 55+. maybe too wide? either way, even with those ranges, 66 should be an obv fold to raise/ 3b vs hj.
as played, i think you have to c/r flop. and think the toughest spot to discuss would be various turn cards.

Seems like play 88+ and cap it against these ranges.