20/40 Half Kill (9 Handed)

Villain 1: LAG pf but TAG postflop to like 50 VPIP / 30 pfr level (approximate but he open limps a decent amount EP, cold calls a decent amount, while raising / 3 betting frequently preflop).

Villain 2: LAG pf and postflop. Open raises and 3 bets light preflop. Creative aggro lines postflop and mixed up ranges and decisions postflop.

Villain 1 open limps MP
Villain 2 raises HJ

HERO 3 bets red 44 on BTN

Villain 1 and villain 2 both call

FLOP:
K63 rainbow

Chks to HERO who cbets and only villain 2 calls

Turn:
K653 (bringing 2nd suit of one of suits on flop).

Chks to HERO and HERO should cbet turn or chk back turn and evaluate?

I don’t love the three bet preflop here. Even against wide ranges, you are still looking at many outs to dodge and you don’t love lots of flops where you don’t hit a set.

As played, turn is an easy bet for value. You didn’t get check raised on the flop, you want to deny equity to overcards, if you are behind you have ten outs. Check back river if you don’t improve.

I don't like pre flop either...I think right around 66's is were I think 3 bet.

bet/call turn.

I think it's a clear fold pre.

If villain was loose passive, easy turn bet 100%. Against Villain (w the possible image of a thinking Lag yourself, given your preflop action), there might be a viable mixed strategy of betting turn most of time and xb a small %, depending partly on villain's river probe betting habits. If his river probe 100%, then you might get more ev by xb sometimes. It's already a moderate sized pot that we'd be happy to take down on the turn vs his QJ/T9ss (and maybe some A hi), so I'd like to win the pot on the turn. But I don't see a huge problem w xb occasionally (and prob calling all rivers), tho the default maybe should be bet 100% Idk. I cant see betting 100% ever be a big mistake, but I think the fold pre is mandatory

Thanks, agree preflop was a mistake.

Additionally, I think Turn should be cbet for value as ninefingershuffle and MacauBond indicated.

NOTE: My image is NIT TAG at table considering hands I have shown down. Vs villain 2 though we have a lot of history so that may not be the case.

*Rest of Hand*
HERO sucks so checks turn.

RIVER
K653T
(No flush possibility)

**Question on Decision on River as Played**

Villain 2 checks and HERO should bet for value or check for cheap showdown?

NOTE 2: Villain 2 is capable to C/R river with Air, 6x, Tx, missed draws, maybe 5x based on our history from other sessions

River is an easy check. Nothing better folds and nothing worse calls.

Thanks ninefingershuffle

HERO checked river and lost to 86 suited vs villain 2.
Just wanted to double check and thanks again for confirmation preflop = bad 3 bet, turn = should cbet for value as played, and river fine to chk for cheap showdown

Preflop is defensible. These aren't the kind of hands I enjoy light three betting with though.

AP definitely check turn. We can show it down for 1 bet tops now if we'd like. I actually think ninefinger and MB are overstating how many overcards are in villain's range here; the K63r flop means that we really aren't expecting a lot of random J hi and Q hi peels in his range, which will make him far more pair dense than on, say, J63. Plus we get value from letting him bluff at it sometimes.

Or in the case of this hand, when it checks down and we lose the minimum post.

I think this is the first time I’ve strongly disagreed with jdr. Based on villain descriptions they can still be so wide on the flop based on player descriptions (apparently one of them couldn’t beat a six) and a king can be discounted a bit because no raise. We hate lots of river cards and I want to blow them off whatever equity they may have. If I’m behind, I’ve got ten outs. If one bet goes in, I want it to go in on the turn. Plus we get put in an awkward spot went we check and get bet into on the river.

It's a lot more awkward to be check raised and face a river bet here TBH. Our hand is easy to play on basically all rivers: we fold an ace and call everything else (except a 3 or 7, which we raise). Yes, even if QJ bluffs 100% on the river, denying the equity to it is superior (since 3/22 times we lose and pay an extra bet to find out), but I see nothing that makes me think this guy is peeling this flop more than optimal. If he starts showing up here w/ like Q9, then yes we should bet.

I actually misread OP and thought that they both called. He’s getting 14 to 1 and 3 bet 86o preflop so I assume he is peeling Q9

Then maybe we should bet. He did only raise FWIW. There's definitely a chunk of players who, if they peel this board, are seeing showdown at an incredibly high frequency

Thinking about it more, the turn is a lot closer if it is heads up. I still like a bet.

bet and likely call down. I can imagine pf is wrong.

As played, once you check turn and villain checks river, I’d bet/call.

I could see that it’s an awkward hand to 3 bet but that equity running close 3 ways (at least) and having position does make it so that really good players could profitably play the hand, but I’d fold and not lose sleep

I also dislike preflop a lot since I doubt the limper will fold ever after open limping and I think 44 is just a bad hand against multiple players (also extremely hard to play multi-way)

as played, turn has to be a bet ainec imo. There’s been no resistance so far so kx can be eliminated. I also think we’re ahead of so much... just at-aq is 48 of them and then a7s-a9s is another 12. Were behind 77-qq which is 36 of them. We’re also behind some 5xs or 6xs type hands but I don’t think there’s too many. These hands shouldn’t be folding anyways, so it makes sense to charge them while we can.

It’s hard to imagine being raised and even if then we have 10 outs to improve...

At got there on the river and perhaps weaker axs isn’t calling. River is prolly closer.

isn't c-betting the turn better that bet calling the river?
after three betting pre we announce to the world that we don't have a king if we check the turn.

Suprised no one is in favor of just checking back the turn and calling a river bet. Also checking river if checked to. IMO probably folding 44 preflop here, this is a marginal spot.