8 handed wild 40/80 must move.

UTG passive reg limps, UTG+1 unknown drunk over-limps, I raise AsQs on the button. Solid, tricky reg 3! SB, limpers call, I 4bet (5 is cap), thinking that SB has a pretty wide range here, and they all call.

Flop KsJs4d
I bet, SB, UTG call, 1 fold

Turn 7c
Checked to me, I check behind (I usually get this and immediately wonder why I didn't)

River Ah
SB bets, UTG folds , I consider every option as viable. SB likely saw my turn check as giving up, with possibly a tiny bit of showdown value. He doesn't see me as the type to 'free card' (because i'm generally not). UTG could call with anything, which means his entire preflop calling range (his flop peel just means he holds 2 cards). There are good arguments for calling and folding. Maybe a raise is even justified (although I doubt it, cause it would be a bluff raise). I'm kinda lost feel like I might have screwed up every street.

PF and flop are both well played. Turn is close between bet or check, you have a ton of equity still but this hand is 100% going to showdown so you’re going to be able to win via 3 barrel never.

Do not even consider folding the river, if you fold I will tilt on your behalf. Snap call, if he has AJ shrug and say nice hand. He could have AT, JT or QJs and trying to get you off QQ or KQ (although KQ barrels the turn).

Seems fine. Don’t fold

+1

1000% bet 3 betting turn vs Ninefingershuffle to donate if I was OP.

10000% raise 4 betting river vs Ninefingershuffle as bluff if I was OP to donate.

Turn is player dependent. Pretty hard to get through two opponents unimproved in a largish pot. But if they both call you’re break even so whatever

I agree with checking the turn. If we assume you have no fold equity, there is no point in bluffing/semi-bluffing. And if you want to have some bluffs, they should be hopeless hands that maybe have good blockers/reverse-blockers. The tldr version of the below is that I think our hand plays better as a check on the turn than as a bet.

When we check and hit a flush or straight on the river, there are lots of ways for us to make 2+ bets, including by SB betting, UTG calling, us raising, and then whatever happens from there. The fact that the other aggressor in the hand acts first and you act third is important here. When we check and hit an ace, we sometimes snap off bluffs and thin value/spaz bets. Again, we also get to see the action in front of us, so when it goes bet/raise we can fold. A queen is a pretty gross result, but we sometimes get to just check it back.

When we check, we also avoid putting money in when behind on the turn, and checking hands that can be nutted on the river protects our range against river bluffs. If, as you say, SB can credibly believe your turn checks just mean you are giving up, or that you have some weak hands that wants to get to showdown, SB can bet a lot of scare cards on the river.

When we bet, it's almost always going to be checked to us on the river and we usually get 1 bet when we get there, and we basically have to check everything else. You get around 3 bets when someone check-raises with a worse flush, but sometimes they lead, especially since you have the 2nd nut flush blocked. This weighs a bit in favor of betting because you can bet the turn and then someone still leads into you on the river and you get to raise them, but I don't think that outweighs the benefits of checking.

+1

+EV to bloat pot on turn vs drunk ninefingershuffle, LAG, and/or LAGATAG on hour 48 in games we play IMO if they were SB. Unfortunately, 1/3 tilts based on run out

This seems like an incredibly easy bet on the turn. Unless your reads are off, you are going to get folds here enough or folds on a blank river to make it an easy bet on the turn. You’ve got a ton of outs if you are behind. You can easily have the best hand. If you bet the turn then the river plays very straightforward as well.

Really? I guess I'm just not seeing it.
Nobody folds the turn here IMO. SB ditched almost everything he had given the flop action, so only going to the turn with a super strong range. UTG can have cfç much anything and he's happily chasing it, or calling down with any pair, over to the board, overdo miracle, etc. This isn't a personal read but we've all this kinda player before and he's one of them.
Betting on there river is even more certain. Any remaining value hands me or SB have can be profitably bet and called and we both know that.

Why the turn bet? It's not a semi bluff (nobody ever folds) or for value (worse hands that arent even in the good villains range at this point) or equity (we're getting at most 5 or 6 to 1 eff, with an expert villain who isn't gonna make it more enticing.

Someone mentioned the chance of being lead into on some rivers. Well that to me doesn't change much here. If the expert does it, it's because he thinks it's how to extract the most value, and I'm in the same spot. If the fish did it, it's cause it's poker and he has chips and betting is fun. Again, same spot for me.

What range of hands are you giving to UTG and SB? How is your equity on the turn against those hands?

+1

SB's failure to cap preflop with the two wide/capped limpers in really cripples him later in the hand. Yet another reason to bet the turn. People who are used to playing with a 4 bet cap often fail to account for stuff like this.

Turn check is a mistake, but can't be a huge one. On the river, anything but call would be a major blunder. You're focusing on the wrong street.

Also, massive pot? 10 big bets on the river. Less than a rack.

The top half of a royal flush draw, one overcard, and the nut no-pair is always going to be a bet here against even the tightest ranges if you're doing math. Situationally, yes you could argue no one is folding anything and closing the action you might get to raise a river but you're sacrificing equity and inviting people to peel flops wider if you become passive with huge hands. The river is just a crying call because no matter what they roll over you will be disappointed with your choice.

I'm pretty sure I'm betting the turn here.

Torn between call or raise on the river, but I think call may be best.

+1

Raising river if I think I can tilt tricky reg SB.

Bueno.

Betting el turno es tonto.

Alot of you are saying that I sacrifice equity by checking the turn. Why? If they both call (which is by no means a certainty) I break even. Any EV difference between betting or checking the turn in miniscule. IMO it's much more important to how it influences river action.

Betting the turn is better information hiding to that end (which was the one reason I really considered it) cause then I can still have KQ, QQ, anything that barrels the turn. On the river, SB can reasonably dismiss some of these, making bluffs way less likely (he's not trying to get me off hands he knows I can't have). As I said before, he doesnt see me as a 'lol free card play' type. He's interpreting my turn check as giving up or going for a cheap showdown, which means he's giving me a range that mostly won't overcall.

Really I'm almost certain hes trying to maximize from the fish in the middle just like I am. He's extra less likely to be targeting me because I block many hands that he'd value bet me with. He has no bluffs (neither of us care about balance here). Alot of replies seem to discount the importance of the donator seated between us. He was why the river action isn't so standard for me. Yeah in hindsight folding is unthinkable, coulda even been a typo, but seeing as SB was value betting a player who could have all pocket pairs, any pair any kicker, even Q high (you all know this type (They don't like to muck their cards. Ever). A raise by me would confuse the hell outa SB, to the point he might have to call just outa pure confusion.

Lol I know it looks like I answered all my own questions, but even if my reads are spot on I'm still not totally sure about to turn or river but for different reasons then most replies addressed. I was more thinking about how turn x or bet effects how much value I can get from the river, not what turn action has better EV.

You are over thinking it - not really that interesting of a hand tbh. Bet the turn, call the river and I don’t think either are all that close. Take note of showdown and just move on the the next hand

+1

Still raising tricky SB on river as played if SB was Ninefingershuffle, SeanSnyder, and/or SB who I thought may be intoxicated / not sober

You all are ignoring a crucial factor. Nobody with a brain is going to fail to cap preflop with anything really good when there are two fish in the pot.

SB failed to cap preflop. This has major ramifications for his range relative to yours. Your range is much stronger and denser at the top end, for one thing. This is why a turn bet with your particular hand is so advantageous. You'd have a much stronger case for checking the turn if you and SB both got to the flop with uncapped ranges.

5 bet cap plays very differently than 4 bet when pots are multiway, particularly when both good and bad players are involved.

Results? Just curious.