Yes I agree with all that. I just think the straddles throw up the variance so much you may as well play hyper draw games.

One of the hard parts is defending the BB, and you are raised. Then you have to figure out how to continue, are they totally random or have something? The straddler has position if the SB folds, and the BB calls.

How much does it throw up variance? How much worse do your opponents play in this unfamiliar spot? If your either of opponents plays conservatively to "avoid variance" in this game, he's ignoring math/antes and is giving you his money. You'll never find a spot this good in a FR game. However, if 20/40 is the biggest stakes you play, this may play as big or bigger than a 40/80 game. There could be good reasons to pass.

The whole thing you're repeating about "you may as well play hyper draw games" is just a distraction. It is either a good spot or a bad spot for you. If there's another spot more profitable, go do that. If that's 7 card stud razzdugi, go do it. Baducy? Sure.

There's no reason that you'd be good at hyper aggro HU or 3 handed poker, out of the gate. It is a skill. I think the straddle game is slightly broken, but it is the different from the button opening a ton and the button opening every hand. It is hard on the SB. I assume that people will adjust poorly. It likely provides too much edge to a very good player. If it is a bad spot for you, avoid it.

I can guesstimate like 2.5 times more gamble in a short straddlefest. I think anyone who's read TOP could come up with adequate adjustments on the fly. It's not as though the straddlers are steller. They are already are making a horrible mistake. I could've just gone to bed. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

My point with the 'other games', they are far more likely to be spread than straddle hold'em as far as I know. So why not just wing it in the straddlefest, which is about 1000-1 that you'll play in one that night?

You really think this is the case? More than likely it's profitable to straddle vs you. But it's quite a disconnect to consider a profitable play a horrible mistake

More than likely you're just trolling and don't play poker.

You're OTB, but you are putting in another 20 with a random hand, and can be forced to commit yet another 20. This cannot possibly be good.

Want to play 3 handed on ACR, I'll straddle the button..... hell I'll even invite the third player and help straddle also.

Some math would be fine. Unlike you I don't think with my hormones, lol.

Pretty timely stuff for me, as the 20/40 game in Seattle is going through a straddle phase right now. It became such a nightmare for the management that it is now spread as a separate game with a separate list, etc. to avoid fights with people who do or do not straddle.

I am not convinced it is best for the long term sustainability of the game (I tend to think that since enough people obviously want to play bigger, they should just spread 40/80), but it certainly is an interesting development. Playing a ton of 3-blind LHE has caused me to do a lot of thinking on optimal play when the straddle is on that wouldn't have been very useful in the past, since I only encountered the random straddle here and there. Last night game was short (4 then 3-handed) with the straddle and I think the other players did a very poor job in adjusting.

The variance is just mental however. That doesn't mean it isn't a good spot. Maybe not the easiest on the stomach lining however.

Wow, didn't realize this was a real game in Seattle, or anywhere.

It's a new thing at Fortune. Starts at 3:00 pm every day as long as there are enough players to keep both the regular 20 and the 20/40 Straddle going and usually runs into the early morning. The straddle game is preferred by all the worst players so the regular 20 has became less good, forcing me to learn to live with the straddle despite my misgivings. My concerns have less to do with the impact on my perceived edge and more about what the insane variance will do the fish.

I tend to think this will be temporary thing but it's been going for a few months now (but the new separate list thing just started a couple weeks ago after players would literally strike and all sit out if someone joined the game who wouldn't straddle).

So do you want to play or not?

Do you want to show me your simulations or not? You haven't said one logical thing in this thread.

Not really. I give out lots of fre info, but I keep my work to myself . If It's simple. I think I can profitably straddle, you think it's a horrendous mistake. One of us is wrong (could very well
Be me) and the other one will make money if we play. That seems very logical

You're not the only game in town. And, I have nothing to prove, and all you have is your assertion that it's a good bet plus your 18 year old glands.

It's now what you have to prove, it's what you have to lose. I'm willing to make a horrible mistake every 3 hands (or every 2/3 hands) and you are turning away the action and the free money. Let's say we plan online and get 120 hands an hour.

Turning away 80 horrible mistakes at 30/60 an hour is a pretty. If opportunity cost

Ha. Good luck to you.

Leaves: a bunch of shorthanded lhe specialists are telling you you are wrong and you want them to show their work. Good luck.

Funny story: last wsop I played in a 150/300 Lhe game at Bellagio with mandatory straddle (it was 9 handed not short). Two times in six hours I saw a pro who has played thousands of hours of high stakes Lhe fold his straddle for one bet heads up closing the action getting 6.5:1

John Locke is the only one who is implying that flat-out straddling is, or could be +ev in the 3handed game. I don't even care that much. I just mentioned it in passing, and John Locke thinks I'm going to be in the man in the middle of all kinds of bets from what I assume is an online site. Somehow I am skeptical.

Which is the funny part:

The straddle part, or the fold part?

Definitely saving this line for the next time Jon and I disagree on something.

I just put him on ignore.

Straddling the button 3-handed is so +EV that it should not be allowed imo.

Tend to agree
Just to be clear, the person who you insulted a number of times is the jerk? He offered to play you poker in a spot in a way that you said it was clearly profitable for you.

If you can't take "OK, let's just go play poker and see" after insulting someone a number of times, I'm not sure what to think. My advice would be not to insult people. This isn't the politics forum.