What are our thoughts on auto-straddle games? 20/40 level. Do we think it makes the game better or worse (let’s assume average game is not nit-infested)? Do we think it increases or lessens our edge? Do we try to encourage a straddle game? Do we always say yes if someone else suggests it? Is there ever a situation where we say no?

I think it increases your variance a lot, and probably increases your EV just a bit, if you know how to adjust well. If you don't know how to adjust well (like me probably), it probably reduces your EV. Also, similarly to a kill game, it makes tighter play correct meaning your going to be playing fewer hands, making the game less fun.

I'll do it for one round if someone is excited about it, but I'm not going to do it for long.

Every time I have been in a game where straddling every hand is suggested, it has been an epic juicefest. Absolutely, positively, 100% always agree to straddle in these situations. Anything else is a punt.

If a fish starts straddling in a soft game, I toss out a straddle myself every 3 rounds or so in hopes that the game will turn into a straddle-every-hand spewfest. Regs with brains will usually join in. The fish will usually suggest a round of straddles which inevitably leads to multiple rounds of straddling.

Straddle is inherently -ev, otherwise you would do it every time regardless of what others do. Much like many other -ev activities (e.g., limit Omaha hi), it's a bad idea until it's not. Your mileage may vary.

I have found straddles in limit games sometimes good, sometimes bad. You never know what the next opportunity will bring. My idol, BK1248, prefers blind limps utg instead. He knows better, so give it a try to liven up your next snoozefest, with Chivas obviously.

In PLO, I straddle regularly but not frequently. Unguarded describes the vibe accurately but there I'm just a fish, like everyone else, so the straddle advantage feels more perceptible, fwiw.

Of course straddles are -ev, but if it is a "mandatory" straddle game, the immediate ev loss from the straddle washes out. Agree with Unguarded that we should always agree to convert the game to straddles.

Agree

This 100%. Also being the wet blanket that doesn’t want to straddle is massively -ev

A mandatory-straddle game takes away from a good player's edge somewhat, because it makes bad players' wide preflop ranges somewhat less incorrect.

That said, everything else Unguarded said about straddling is absolutely true.

The few times I’ve played in them it makes players tighter pre flop due to no limping but keeps their cold call range similar so in essence they play fewer hands and therefore a bit more correctly

Yeah, I feel like it always makes the games I’m in worse. The loosest players might play the same but sometimes they tighten up. Everyone else generally tightens up. And worst of all, I have to tighten up, especially from the big blind. I would only want to play in a straddle game if it was mostly nits in the game.

You're doing it wrong. On average we should be loosening somewhat in a straddle game, because there is more in the pot to fight over. In 2-chip/4-chip blind structure the pot starts out with 1.5 big blinds. With an 8-chip straddle there are now 1.75 straddles in the pot. More money to fight over = wider ranges.

Haha, thread is proof of why straddle games are awesome.

I am usually down for whatever the recs want to do without bothering to analyze the EV and all that. I feel like the best live pros are the ones who are best at keeping the recs entertained. High stakes poker is moving more and more towards private games because so many regs fail to understand that "entertainer" is on their list of job requirements. Being a social butterfly doesn't come naturally to me, but saying "yes" is easy.

How is that? Because some people think they improve the game for good players, and others disagree?

Sure, if it were dead money. If you have to pay more to play on the first round, but the bets are the same size in the other rounds, you can't profitably play as many hands that depend on implied odds to be profitable. Maybe this means you should play fewer IO hands and more other hands, but I'm not sure what those would be.

Let me help you guys out with some straddle math. When a rec asks if the table wants to straddle every hand, he is giving you 2 options:

1) Tell him no, he reduces his VPIP from 60 to 45, and he leaves the game earlier than he otherwise would.

2) Tell him yes, he increases his VPIP from 60 to 85 while tossing out double straddles, and he plays until he is felted. He might even ask to double the stakes!

Some people obviously have had different experiences than you have.

Yeah, the games at Fortune tighten up quite a bit when the auto straddle is on. I think straddle makes the game worse there most of the time. If it consistently turned into a blast fest, I would fasten my seatbelt and happily participate.

No, because on a forum of thinking players, one guy says you need to tighten up and the next guy says you need to loosen up. They cannot both be right. One of the benefits of turning on the straddle is that a lot of players adjust incorrectly, including players who normally play quite well.

There’s an extra blind, therefore more money to steal.

Only if the straddle will ever fold, which it really shouldn't, in which case your chance of stealing is 0% or close to 0%, at least preflop. This does not necessarily mean we should play tighter, only that immediate fold/steal equity is not a reason to raise.

Yep, it is hard to know how to adjust. However, in the games I play, I'm typically the only person who plays quite well, so the straddle will possibly make me play worse and might make others play better, which is why I am not a fan of them.

And some people obviously are nits who are bad for the game.

For what it's worth, "Splitsuit" Sweeney shows -- for NLHE, not limit -- that GTO ranges widen and range composition changes when a UTG straddle is in play.

I don't see what this has to do with the posts you quoted.