Math is hard

since it's pretty clear very few of you have any clue on personal finance matters, these numbers would have gotten you over $2M with a far more conservative portfolio than the average poker player would have invested in over that time. and that $2M+ gets you above the "upper middle class" threshold with a conservative ~4% annual withdrawal rate (after taxes), which will allow you to continue to get richer over time even if you do nothing.

i'm sure most of you want more than that level of income, but these annual investments and returns are at the low end of what a decent poker player would have expected. so to say that nobody is there is LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

So your suggestion is someone who was good during the boom is still clearing $200k / year to be able to invest $30k per year every year since?

was just throwing out an example. i never played full time, was never very good, lost at high stakes, paid a f***load in tuition, and had less money than pretty much everyone i knew in poker, so i know the numbers i put up for 04-11 are super conservative and if you invested just a modest amount in 04-07 and nothing since you'd easily be able to retire comfortably (though not rich) today.

Maybe we explore assumptions? What do you think that a boom-time player made. Let's say someone who played casual poker in 2002 who followed the Moneymaker boom into 2003 and played all the soft online games to UIGEA into the mid and lower high stakes. What's a reasonable income for that cohort? Folks like Deathdonkey and JoeTall quit real jobs for poker, so it had to be pretty good. If we have some common ground on income, arguing what constitutes retirement becomes easier.

The early appearances of Limon on Bart Hanson's podcast made me rethink stuff about retirement and poker players... or consultants like me with highly variable income. He always talked about investing in real estate and businesses. Made me rethink the guy I know who owns like 3 car-washes (clearly baller). Poker players had to trade off liquidity, investment income, and the lost opportunities of not playing higher by removing $ from BR.

If you bought a rental house, a couple of duplexes, and maybe the odd quadplex during the good days, then sure. Depends on you effective your strategy in investment was. SEP 401Ks and the like are not liquid, but other savings might provide income to match lost income. I assume that some of us still make money playing poker. Not me, but other people.


I'm interested in your numbers here. Let's draw a line at $200K and $500K. In from poker income (winnings, rakeback, bonus, etc.) how many primarily LHE players made >$200k and >$500k per year in the following years.1995

• 2000
• 2005
• 2010
• 2015
• 2020

I'm going to start on the $200K line with saying that in 1995 the answer was almost none. Fewer than 20? Not 100% sure on that. 2010 would be a ton because SNE was a big hunk of that and some folks who post here both made SNE and a decent WR, right?

Maybe flip the question around. How many online LHE players from 2004-2011 made $1MM+ overall n that period? < 50?

Online is just a different beast and requires far more discipline, attention, game selection, knowing when to quit, not over-exploiting, knowing where you stand in the pecking order. Discussion on what made these players not go broke is probably just as insightful.

I'll snap the over on 50. How many people made a million over 7 of the best years in LHE? Has to be more than 50. Fossilman was a LHE reg (and mix games) during that portion of time. There's one for you.

I’d snap take the under on 50 players who have a net worth of 1m or more from poker

Poker? Or LHE?

LhE

This is silly, since there's thousands who could easily have done it but moved on to other games or other things entirely.

But I'd still smash over 50 and lay 50:1 if you only count money won from LHE and the returns from investing that money directly.

Americans only or row included? Dont think Euros have same IRA/401k. But I would take under 50 if you paying 50-1. I would like to bet 2k If you accept the bet I would offer anyone that can prove to me they make 1 mills 2004-2011 lhe free 1k. There would be time limit on this prop maybe a year. Have people that take my offer sent directly to a third party for prove.

Wait are you saying over 50 that made +1 mills from lhe in 2006-2011 and invested in stocks? lol that just took out a lot of euro that beast mode during that time period. what the max you willing to accept? I can add the free money.

Yo Stinkypete snap take his offer. DJ is broke lying Pos. I took all his money on bodog. He just bluffing

Ship me the $2k to book and if you can prove less than 50 former LHE players are millionaires now I'll send you the $102k.

There would have been a lot of millionaires if not for mike l. fine dining excursions.

In science in order to prove a theory they look for reason to disprove it. So I am pretty sure the bet is to look for 50 people that made 1 mill in that time frame. Since you already coughing up 100k in potential losses I am trying to help you by spreading your cost. I am giving people incentive w free 1k to prove that you are right. Since I am coughing up 50k it would make sense that you would have to escrow something.

What time frame do you want a year for this people to send in infor to a third party to verify?

Correct

It's a curious proposition. I'd like to see it go further.

Is pokertableratings still around? Would you accept them? They had a black hat for people who'd made a million (career?).

I think people are mixing "made a million in total profit" with "have a million in net worth" with "have a million liquid".

The best kind of stories.

Tax infor and also forward hhs from site. Hhs will prove made in lhe. Tax to prove that these guys contributing to IRA/Solo 401k. Considering they getting to brag about there winning and also gettint free 1k these shouldnt be hard.

Actually I will take PTR too since some of the sites is impossible to get hhs from sites. However if the PTR show they play partypoker/Stars these have to get hhs. But tax infor is a must. The fact is these guys should retire w asset in equity means they have proof of transaction. Cant imagine having tons in stocks/real estate and yet dont file taxes.

wait am i reading this right? if anyone can prove they made a mil at lhe between 2004-2011 you’ll give them 1k?

Yes only if Stinkypete takes the bet. I am sure there at least 20 guys that can easily prove. The market is saying he has a 98% chance of winning. It almost free money. If he don't think 2k is worth it or if other would like to take the bet pls post here. I only have 2% chance of winning plus giving out free vig.


Btw for those that wonder why would I give free 1k. Not enough people going to bother giving out information without some sort of incentive. And so stinky would claim this isn't provable.

.. For those that confuse. I guess he backing out from investing but that fine. I just want tax returns/prove of lhe winning of this 50 people plus 50:1 odds.