Maybe it's the language barrier, but DonJuan sounds like a real piece of work.

I miss when limit holdem was the game. nlhe no action. plo the illusion of action. Mix is a disaster for the most part now.

What are you talking about? 40/80 + mix games running everyday during the Series.

Think Sean needs at a minimum one extra zero on those bet amounts to bother

On another note, I enjoyed donating and learning all the games at Bellagio last week

My point in the original post wasn't about what games there are or aren't at any given time, it's simply that my opinion is that nlhe is bad because the structure allows weak pros to wait for sets or AA to stack sticky rec overpairs, plo is bad because it allows weak pros to get in whatever cooler spot vs recs for a billion blinds and mix is bad because aside from very high stakes, games generally favor weaker pros whose main skill is evaluating their starting hand and the majority of games involve little to no bluffing...and games are unbelievably slow. Limit holdem is real fast, most bad players at medium/high stakes are laggy and aren't losing to nits, so the people that win are the ones actually playing hands and playing them properly.

But on the subject of the availability of mixed games...it doesn't matter. The reality is that there is very little money to be made at mix below very high stakes. If someone wants to come out of the woodworks to brag to me about their 40/80 or 80/160 winrate please feel free not to; I don't care that you run good. The reality is that a competent pro is going to be hard pressed to win more than $40/hr playing the typical 80/160 mixed game. Use your imagination for what bb/100 and hands/hr I chose to come to this conclusion. Maybe that does it for some people. Gambling for more dollars for similar winrate to what I can achieve playing significantly smaller is something I have no interest in. I'd rather fall asleep playing 2/5 NL, 1/2(5) PLO or just play 200NL online if I wanted to grind out that $40/hr. Meanwhile, a skilled limit holdem player could easily achieve 160/hr playing 80/160 and the numbers I used to reach this conclusion surely can't be too mysterious.

Plus I'm feeling nostalgic after a couple weeks of running into ODB almost every day at the Rio and remembering waking up at Commerce at 3am and sitting with him in a shorthanded game where he had 8237498327493242938 chips and wondering if he busted half of LA or if he was just half way to even

And DonJuan posting sick graphs and bragging about smashing people who don't work on their games.

And sitting miserable at Oceans yesterday playing 1/2 PLO (that became 5/5 PLO/PLO8 thank god) talking to someone I used to play 40/80 lhe with about when Mike L and I used to rush in there at like 8am multiple days in a row to start 3 handed with this one legend, the time Roc and I were stuck collectively like 15k and the game became 3 handed with overs and like an hour later we were both in the bar drinking to celebrate the fact we both somehow ended up winning, all the cool guys who played me hu and gave me 3-5k nearly 100% of the time.

Yeah lhe was awesome.

But NL is cool too. Last week I opened KK in a 2/5 game and a guy called and it came like 974cc and I check called 25 into 40 (because the rake is like 7 bucks which is also pretty cool) and the 5c turn went check check and he called 100 on the 2d river and mucked QQ face so that's cool too. It's always exciting to win $125 after the flop with the 2nd best hand when your opponent was dealt the 3rd best hand and it's really a super fun form of poker with a lot of action. And it makes sense he can't even bet the turn and if he had bet 3 times on this board I would have just folded the 2nd best possible starting hand because no limit holdem is really cool and it's fun to have every pot where more than 2 streets are wagered boil down to whether your opponent has essentially the nuts or air.

Seem rather rational for the Recs to being play mix/draw games more bang for there buck. Nl/lhe/plo and they lose too quick. A lot of regs follow the suppose rec not understand their edge in those live games.

Also playing live is a very humbling experience nothing more deflating then running mix strategy bluff and get snap call down by K high by old asian reg drinking Mich lite while watching drama tv barely giving a **** who you are. That 1.5 hour drive home is the loneliest feeling in the world. More prop to the regs that able to do it day in and out.

I like your passive aggressiveness. It like you want call me a douche but just in case. Just like the guys that play 3 hand on bodog and instant sit out. It worst than the guy that straight up steal playing one hand due to the fact he think he honorable somehow not stealing because he let you play your Btn.

I was in Vegas for 3 days a couple weeks ago and played at Bellagio, Wynn, PH, Rio, Orleans and only played NL in the 8 game mix tourney I played. I was happy. **** NLH.

dont bluff hung. ezgame.

dont bluff hung. ezgame.

LHE is the perfect poker game.

I'm MrPoon.

Was Wacky playing plo?
Haven’t seen James in ages and can’t think of another old 40 player that plays the plo

They switched the mix to five card yesterday

I'm a bit slow. Are you being sarcastic?

If so, I agree. Been watching lhe on live at the bike lately and it's so funny how the NLHE audience thinks it's boring. It plays so much faster and everyone is spewing useful information all the time.

Also, are your complaints about weak pros because they have too much edge too easily so they skin the recs instead of sheer them like you do in LHE?

Of course he is being sarcastic.

It’s a bad example if he’s trying to show how 3 streets of action is only nutted hands/bluffs.

Folding kings to 3 barrels would probably not be optimal and the other guy should probably go for 3 streets with a set or straight depending on sizing.

Why is betting 60% of your range for value / 10% as a bluff more interesting than 20% for value and 10% as a bluff?

I'm seeing a lot of players come back to limit lately. Many are from the Big 0 game and swear they will never play again. Is limit making a comeback?

That’s some depressing info Sean is dropping on us. I suppose when I play Mix it’s more about the experience than about the money, but still, $40/hr @ $40/$80? Wtf? I don’t have enough of a sample to challenge that statement, but the pace of play at the Rio is unbearable and I trust Sean’s judgement, so I can believe it. But still, it’s fun to play things other than LHE, but not at half the hourly.

many of the mix games are split pot games, which lowers winrate. some of the games like triple draw are scoop games though. you definitely get a lot fewer hands per hour at mix than you do at straight holdem.

I'm not sure split pot inherently lowers winrate per hand. But it definitely slows down hands/hr as it invites more multiway pots and takes some time for dealers to read hands and award pots.

One thing that's been huge for me in the 20/40 at rio this year is they have enforced always having a 1/2 kill in the game. Without that I tend to agree with Sean's assessment of mix just being ultimately too low an hourly for a variety of reasons.

Even with the kill I'm still probably better off hourly wise playing a 20/40 lhe no kill game, or 20/40 o8 1/2 kill.

I do think it's all about game selection, and a juicy mix lineup is likely better than a reggy lhe one. But with equal lineups, the lhe should always be better just in terms of hands/hr being almost doubled. I should probably clock the hands played/hr sometime but it definitely feels like at least double at lhe vs mix.

That said I am often happy to take a pay cut in order to play some different games. I view mix as a change of pace and way to improve my overall poker game rather than on a strict $/hr basis.

Otherwise I would just grind 2/5nl and table hop/seat change all day mostly bored to tears.

Actually, he said $40/hr at 80/160 mix. This might sound a little dramatic but he probably isn't that far off.

8 handed 90 game mix live game ime is lucky to get out 12-13hands vs 20 in straight lhe. never making that up live.

How high would the stack of placards be for a 90 game mix?

i believe that w/r for 80/160. i've played 40 or 80 mix like five times in vegas and the one time there was an actual whale and not a nitfish the guy was 95 years old and took way too long to act on every decision. plus damn near every game is split pot.

it's fun as a rec but man if i had to play that for a living i would suffer. it's such a nutpeddle and so many games take foreeeeeever.