Best footballer in the world is 5'5 160lbs. It's not a sport that rewards strength or size that highly. Otherwise you would have seen a similar self selection as you do in basketball, nfl or volleyball.

It makes sense that the best soccer player can be 5'5" 160lbs when everybody else is 5'5" 160lbs. In my hypothetical, soccer would be the main game in the US. I think the average size of a US soccer player would dwarf the size of current soccer players. I believe the US would dominate soccer because they would be bigger, stronger, and just as skilled. The worlds soccer teams would have to adjust by getting bigger to compete.

The US womens soccer team is the current world champs while the US mens team didn't even qualify for the tournament. Coincidence?

I respect the skill of soccer players but I have zero respect for their constant fake injuries. How can someone who plays any contact sport take soccer seriously when they see this? Why is this even allowed? This is what got me thinking how cool it would be to show these guy's what a big hit really feels like.

you could make a pretty compelling argument that the only reason the US women started out as the best in soccer was due to being the only country to offer an infrastructure toward girls soccer.

the best imaginary american soccer players are probably wide receivers / defensive backs from the NFL but rewired for more endurance. mbappe would be a stud WR.

making the argument that lebron and jj watt would dominate soccer makes about as much sense as the argument that messi would dominate the NBA. they could probably be goalies but i think thats about it.

Dude the entire damn world has soccer as their number 1 sport in terms of interest money and infrastructure. Even if the us could be 2x better than a country like Brazil at producing players (we can’t be), the talent output of the rest of the word would still produce a few of these freak athletes that you think would dominate l.

In fact your line of thinking is one of the reasons that us Soccer fails to identify and develop its best youth talent so often and is one of the contributing factors to us missing the World Cup.

they aren't, plenty of soccer players are taller or heavier. However, it doesn't gain them a big enough advantage to excell.

your hypothetical is wrong. There are plenty of bigger people around the world. You would see bigger players in soccer if the size gave them an advantage.

You don't understand how reality works.

You think size is exlusive to the US? If so then you are deluded. The only reason smaller people succeed at soccer is because the sport doesn't reward size that much. Just look at any other sport that rewards size across the world and you won't see a single 5'5 170 top performer.

That's a totally different argument. I'm not arguing that the US wouldn't be great at soccer if they focused on it (they would). I'm arguing that guys like Lebron wouldn't be great at soccer because the sport isn't suited for huge freaks of nature like him. Soccer players average running 7-9 miles while NBA players average about 2.5 miles per game. Definitely not an advantage for a guy that's 240+ lbs.

again, a totally different argument. I'm not a soccer fan by any means, but I understand why they fake injuries. They do it because it's +EV, simple as that. They're willing to sacrifice their ego for the good of the team. I agree that it sucks, but that's how the sport currently is. Getting a penalty, free kick or a card is hugely valuable and the punishment for faking is very small. Personally, I think they should use video cameras to punish fakery more severely, but honestly i'm not that big of a fan so idgaf. I just love ****ing with the traditionalists that scream bloody murder at any progress in the sport.

Good point!

I'm just using Lebron and Watt as examples of freak athletes who could dominate soccer if that was there focus. Obviously they would physically train differently to adapt to the demands of the sport.

But you're not understanding the fact that a "freak athlete" isn't automatically adaptable to be the best at any and all sports. The idea that either of them would easily "dominate soccer" is absurd.

There's plenty of people who have a much higher "athlete" stat than LeBron, they just don't have the height and wingspan to be the GOAT basketball player. There's others that are much better suited to athleticism with their feet. You have to be dumb or just trolling to think "best at sport only played by tall people in rich countries with their hands" automatically translates to "best at endurance sport played everywhere with feet and head"

Maybe LeBron would have been dominating the Tour de France instead of football in our one-dimensional athleticism world? Think about him instead of Peter Sagan in the rainbow stripes of the World Champion's jersey. Then, he's taking yellow on L'Alpe d'Huez to take control and win his 8th consecutive tour. GoaT, indeed. 'Merica. Team Nike dominating the Pro Cycling Tour.

mongidig,

lebron and watt are miles behind at agility and endurance compared to pro footballers, even if soccer was their primary focus. i think you are massively underestimating this point, and it makes everything else you say kinda pointless.

tour de france analogy is a good one. or just look at pro marathoners. i dont think JJ watt is keeping up with galen rupp even if he spent his whole life focusing on long distance running.

btw i'm not saying either of those guys are drawing dead at soccer careers (tho i think lebron is limited to just being a goalie or a defender cuz im not sure you can be an attacker and be 6'8). zlatan is 6'5. but i think its silly to assume just because they are world class athletes that they would dominate soccer. a much more realistic conclusion is that they are elite athletically and would have a decent chance of being a pro player, but at no inherent advantage over anyone else looking to become pro at soccer (and if anything else, probably a disadvantage due to height).

Certainly more interesting than stupid soccer.

Congrats tomato!

The real question is how soccer players would do if they played actual sports instead

+1, huge props to Ben
Who knows about lifetime potential with different training? I assume you're right. There's stuff about body type and natural inclinations that go into being world class in competitive athletics. There have been skaters and skiers who became world class on the bike, but maybe that's similarity in the pursuits?


I know about zilch in soccer, but it seems likely that lack of Americans in the sport has more to it than "the best guys don't play".

like baseball or golf!

i think a sport where you could somewhat make the "usa big strong fast athletic? get in there!" parallel is rugby. as i understand it, the usa has always been poor at rugby (on the intl level), has been making an effort to convert some track+field and american football guys, and has now gone from poor up to mediocre.

I'm pretty confident this is exactly correct.

Michael Phelps is obviously within the top few in the "freak athlete" category but he just happens to have the genetics (weirdly proportioned body) to be an incredible swimmer. None of the amazing athletes mongidig mentioned would ever have a shot against him, and he wouldn't have stood a chance at becoming a top athlete in any other major sport.

He's probably the single most extreme example, but similar effects are in play with LeBron having the body to be the GOAT basketball player while drawing dead in most other sports. But I do wonder how good he could be at volleyball, for example.

JJ Watt is probably drawing dead in any other major sport though... that combination of strength and speed just doesn't come into play in other sports.

WWE

Complete non sequitur--different sports call for different skills but there's enough overlap that a potentially-good soccer player growing up in the US could decide to play something else.

the salient question is, "Are there American men who would be good at soccer if they'd grown up in a different environment, but didn't because that environment doesn't often exist in the US?"

I think that's pretty clearly a Yes but I don't have evidence and there may be good arguments for No.

My feeling is that if American soccer culture was like Brazil or England, it’s more likely that PGs who washed out of the nba would have been great then, for example, steph curry or something... the great players generally have skill sets that are so particular and amazing that they often don’t translate well into other sports.


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IOW say the 200th best NCAA D-I men's hoops player and the 100th best wide receiver in the NFL and the 37th best third baseman in the major leagues and the 2nd best player in whatever the top flight of junior league hockey, plus some guy who played high school sports but wasn't great and never moved on, just happen to be the five American men with the innate skills to be world class at soccer who aren't playing soccer.

TBQH I think some combination like that is a little more plausible than Lebron and friends being the top soccer couldabeens but who knows? Point is, we're 300 million people so there are probably some guys who could crush at association football who never find out how good they could have been. In Uruguay, Iceland, or Croatia anyone with any scintilla of a hint of being good is going to play soccer.

EDIT: Ha, OTR just beat me to it.

It's pretty obvious a lot of the pro athletes in football/hockey, even baseball, and to a much lesser extent basketball, could have reached a high professional level in soccer if that's what they grew up playing. It's just absurd to say with confidence that beasts like LeBron or JJ Watt would have "dominated" soccer.

Wasn't there a thread a while back (maybe just a discussion with some 2p2ers) about putting an NFL team onto a basketball court against college basketball teams, with a debate over what ranked college team they'd be a favorite over?

USA would be the best soccer nation in world if they wanted to, but again why would anyone want to.

I’ll enourage my son to play other sports instead, just as I was when I grew up (learned at a young age soccer is for communists). Of course he’s half Asian so drawing dead to go far in most sports anyways.

That's what Germany said.