Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Mid-High Stakes Limit Discussions of mid-high stakes limit Texas Hold'em

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-11-2018, 04:15 AM   #301
MacauBound
old hand
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,583
Re: 2018 NC/LC THREAD - are we ever going to get a title?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dadjoey View Post
Dan's analysis of the AQ/999 hand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQcVKYaaTtc
Yes, that's the hand I was referring to where he got the bluff thru.

I'm also a little confused as to where anybody said he wasn't a great NL player. The discussion was whether he was playing like a "HS bot" or employing a different approach in a NL game w straddles, sometimes 3 blinds, etc.

I'd imagine the game runs for the same way reason any HS game runs - the donators can easily afford to play it and the pros are easily making enough, as far as they're concerned, to offset any miniscule cost of having hole cards seen. If anything, a pro on the stream may get benefits (wearing patches for money, future paid media gigs, future invites to soft games) if he plays his cards right, that outweigh any cost of showing hole cards.

Last edited by MacauBound; 05-11-2018 at 04:32 AM.
MacauBound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2018, 05:42 AM   #302
DonkeyOnTilt
adept
 
DonkeyOnTilt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Canterbury's favorite tagfish
Posts: 994
Re: 2018 NC/LC THREAD - are we ever going to get a title?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob View Post
Awesome, much better view of forum member Rodeo this time too.
I played in seat 9. My 7th trip to L.A. and my first time meeting several of those guys. Jean, Joshua and Chris were terrific humans. To anyone thinking about making the trip: Do it! I always have a complete blast and feel treated like a vip at the bike. Its why I keep coming back. The recently rekindled 40 game was super good!
DonkeyOnTilt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2018, 09:37 AM   #303
DougL
Too helpful for this post
 
DougL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 21,493
Re: 2018 NC/LC THREAD - are we ever going to get a title?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Snyder View Post
One player chose a hand in his range and played it the way it should be played at some frequency at this stack depth, another held a hand that is a trivial snapcall against pretty much any strategy, chose not to based on an emotional response and the result was a catastrophic error.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dadjoey View Post
Dan's analysis of the AQ/999 hand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQcVKYaaTtc
Dan basically repeated Sean's analysis on a podcast with horrible double audio.
Quote:
I now see that thereís a lot of info they donít get. The dynamic here is wayyyyy more in depth bc of the friendship and experience that Aaron and Dan have with each other.
None of the analysis of the hand (either from Dan or Sean) included any of this. Dan just walks through ranges, says he has a key blocker, and that it was a good time to bluff. He's amazed that this hand is folded by his opponent, but thinks his own play is standard/good at least at some frequency. Maybe he's not sharing his opponent-specific adjustments, but Dan's explanation of the entire hand is a dry telling of how to play your range vs. opponent ranges as the board comes out rather than a fun tale of long history vs. an opponent.
DougL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2018, 10:32 AM   #304
Munga30
veteran
 
Munga30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sacking up and saying thank you.
Posts: 2,244
Re: 2018 NC/LC THREAD - are we ever going to get a title?

That's awesome DoT! Thanks for letting us know.
Munga30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2018, 11:29 AM   #305
dadjoey
journeyman
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 281
Re: 2018 NC/LC THREAD - are we ever going to get a title?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacauBound View Post
The discussion was whether he was playing like a "HS bot" or employing a different approach in a NL game w straddles, sometimes 3 blinds, etc.
He's a bot in the sense that he's a winner in the game and employs a taggy strategy. Ryan or Dan himself even said in the commentary once that he prefers not to get into 'gambly' spots which is fair.

You're not going to see him empty the clip like Tom Dwan or exploit hard with K2o like Garrett. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO3Fv-G0JAM That is not to say he never bluffs. From what I've seen he bluffs in a very optimal way if that makes any sense. I haven't played with Dan personally, but from what I've seen I think he plays his image and executes his strategy well.
dadjoey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2018, 03:39 PM   #306
jdr0317
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 6,161
Re: 2018 NC/LC THREAD - are we ever going to get a title?

Never played w/ Dan. Have played w/ Aaron. From what I've seen from Dan on stream and Aaron in person, both are very good players.
jdr0317 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2018, 04:13 PM   #307
DougL
Too helpful for this post
 
DougL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 21,493
Re: 2018 NC/LC THREAD - are we ever going to get a title?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Munga30 View Post
That's awesome DoT! Thanks for letting us know.
Glad to hear you had a good time. Wish I had seen you guys playing on the stream.
DougL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2018, 05:29 PM   #308
Sean Snyder
centurion
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 163
Re: 2018 NC/LC THREAD - are we ever going to get a title?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacauBound View Post
I'd imagine the game runs for the same way reason any HS game runs - the donators can easily afford to play it and the pros are easily making enough, as far as they're concerned, to offset any miniscule cost of having hole cards seen. If anything, a pro on the stream may get benefits (wearing patches for money, future paid media gigs, future invites to soft games) if he plays his cards right, that outweigh any cost of showing hole cards.
My opinion is that the cost of having your hole cards and play exposed is quite significant. In the case of NLHE, it is rather apparent from the majority of even remotely meaningful hands in the bigger games that many regs have done little to no work studying the game away from the table and even when they are choosing the right hands to do things, their actual frequencies are not even close to what they should be. If I were to play on a stream again it would have to be either NLHE where I feel I could play poorly and still generate a winrate or games that are hard to play terribly on the first round and that I don't play very often (LHE oddly at the top of that list, followed by cap NLHE). My 1 experience on PNIA was great and something I'd happily do again, but I'd strongly prefer to never expose my play in any other big bet games (especially cap) or lowball games. Plus I wouldn't want anyone getting a hernia from laughing at how tight I play split pot games

Both PNIA and LATB are great products that provide a ton of entertainment value. I know I watch both regularly. But free coaching that can both help players improve to the point where they may be competing with me for the same money or to help people I'm playing with get better at beating me is about the last thing I'm interested in in the 2018 poker landscape.
Sean Snyder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2018, 05:52 PM   #309
pig4bill
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 27,982
Re: 2018 NC/LC THREAD - are we ever going to get a title?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Snyder View Post
My opinion is that the cost of having your hole cards and play exposed is quite significant. In the case of NLHE, it is rather apparent from the majority of even remotely meaningful hands in the bigger games that many regs have done little to no work studying the game away from the table and even when they are choosing the right hands to do things, their actual frequencies are not even close to what they should be.
Do you think it's impossible that these regs are embarking on a disinformation campaign because they know people are watching? Or that these guys that are making a decent living from playing are just stumbling into winning pots?
pig4bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2018, 06:00 PM   #310
Sean Snyder
centurion
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 163
Re: 2018 NC/LC THREAD - are we ever going to get a title?

They aren't stumbling into winning pots, they are playing winning poker for the average lineup they play in.

A guy once won a million dollars playing 100/200 LHE online essentially mashing the rightmost button because it worked really well. Right up until it didn't. My personal preference is for "until it didn't" to stay away for as long as possible for any game, but especially ones that are close to the range of stakes I play daily. Even in 2018, people aren't working nearly as hard on their game as they could/should be and I'd rather they did it by anteing up and letting me buy them a few drinks than by watching it for free online without me knowing they've seen it.

Last edited by Sean Snyder; 05-12-2018 at 06:07 PM.
Sean Snyder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2018, 09:31 PM   #311
UpHillBothWays
adept
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 978
Re: 2018 NC/LC THREAD - are we ever going to get a title?

Alrighty, so I misread that situation.

I’ve played w both though with dan only briefly. I have a good deal of sh and fr experience w Aaron and first off, both are good peeps. Aaron plays very well when sober but gets a bit too laggy in lhe when drinking. Extremely good amateur player though. Def among the best in that pool.
UpHillBothWays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2018, 09:18 AM   #312
dadjoey
journeyman
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 281
Re: 2018 NC/LC THREAD - are we ever going to get a title?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Snyder View Post
A guy once won a million dollars playing 100/200 LHE online essentially mashing the rightmost button because it worked really well. Right up until it didn't.
I must be a degen since I still remember hands I railed from 10 years ago. One of my favorite Phil Ivey moments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSlinger View Post
My favourite Ivey moment (taken from the September high stakes thread):

Full Tilt Poker Game #7896387621: Table Patrik (6 max) - $2000/$4000 - Limit Omaha H/L - 19:51:39 ET - 2008/09/01
Seat 2: LoLiNa ($46,996)
Seat 4: Phil Ivey ($307,613)
Seat 5: David Benyamine ($93,998)
Seat 6: Gus Hansen ($78,996)
David Benyamine posts the small blind of $1,000
Gus Hansen posts the big blind of $2,000
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
LoLiNa raises to $4,000
Phil Ivey calls $4,000
David Benyamine raises to $6,000
Gus Hansen calls $4,000
LoLiNa calls $2,000
Phil Ivey raises to $8,000
David Benyamine calls $2,000
Gus Hansen calls $2,000
LoLiNa calls $2,000
*** FLOP *** [6s Qs 2d]
David Benyamine checks
Gus Hansen checks
LoLiNa bets $2,000
Phil Ivey raises to $4,000
David Benyamine raises to $6,000
Gus Hansen has 15 seconds left to act
Gus Hansen calls $6,000
LoLiNa raises to $8,000
Phil Ivey calls $4,000
David Benyamine calls $2,000
Gus Hansen calls $2,000
*** TURN *** [6s Qs 2d] [9h]
David Benyamine bets $4,000
Gus Hansen calls $4,000
LoLiNa raises to $8,000
Phil Ivey raises to $12,000
David Benyamine calls $8,000
Gus Hansen: wauw
Gus Hansen has 15 seconds left to act
Gus Hansen calls $8,000
LoLiNa calls $4,000
*** RIVER *** [6s Qs 2d 9h] [Jd]
David Benyamine checks
Gus Hansen checks
LoLiNa checks
Phil Ivey bets $4,000
David Benyamine folds
Gus Hansen has 15 seconds left to act
Gus Hansen folds
LoLiNa has 15 seconds left to act
LoLiNa folds
Uncalled bet of $4,000 returned to Phil Ivey
Phil Ivey mucks
Phil Ivey wins the pot ($111,998)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $112,000 | Rake $2
Board: [6s Qs 2d 9h Jd]
Seat 2: LoLiNa folded on the River
Seat 4: Phil Ivey (button) collected ($111,998), mucked
Seat 5: David Benyamine (small blind) folded on the River
Seat 6: Gus Hansen (big blind) folded on the River

LoLiNa: i had two air nut low draw nut flush draw what u guys have
Phil Ivey: i had a bet button
Sean, really miss your degen stories and random chipporn pics. Hope to meet you one day. Jesse made a post not too long ago about running super hot just by game selecting - quitting when the game is bad, staying when the game is good. How important is that for $ and sanity at your stakes?
dadjoey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2018, 07:09 PM   #313
Sean Snyder
centurion
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 163
Re: 2018 NC/LC THREAD - are we ever going to get a title?

The majority of the games I play tend to break very quickly when they get bad, so it's not a huge concern for me. In general when I've been doing well (my first 6-7 months back to playing live), I tend to play from the time the game starts to when it breaks. When I've been doing poorly (the last 7 months), my preference is to be nowhere near a poker table once a session starts going downhill.

It also depends on what I'm playing. Despite not playing much mix from 2013-2017, I feel very confident in the work I've done away from the table, and I also feel that the mix of games in my regular game very heavily favors me, so my game quitting decisions are generally going to be based on life happiness and whether or not it's good for the future of the game for me to leave. Meanwhile, my NLHE game is much stronger than any other individual game, but in LA when I sit in a NLHE game it is because it is very soft, so I won't be playing long once that changes.
Sean Snyder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2018, 07:40 PM   #314
maka2184
adept
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 750
Re: 2018 NC/LC THREAD - are we ever going to get a title?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Snyder View Post
The majority of the games I play tend to break very quickly when they get bad, so it's not a huge concern for me. In general when I've been doing well (my first 6-7 months back to playing live), I tend to play from the time the game starts to when it breaks. When I've been doing poorly (the last 7 months), my preference is to be nowhere near a poker table once a session starts going downhill.

It also depends on what I'm playing. Despite not playing much mix from 2013-2017, I feel very confident in the work I've done away from the table, and I also feel that the mix of games in my regular game very heavily favors me, so my game quitting decisions are generally going to be based on life happiness and whether or not it's good for the future of the game for me to leave. Meanwhile, my NLHE game is much stronger than any other individual game, but in LA when I sit in a NLHE game it is because it is very soft, so I won't be playing long once that changes.
Thank you kindly for this. Your last like 3 posts in a row was very informative and a phenomenal read.

Hope to one day get a chance to learn mix games in the future but still to this day enjoy LHE too much especially HUHU and 6max games live or online
maka2184 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2018, 11:37 PM   #315
SetofJacks
veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,296
Re: 2018 NC/LC THREAD - are we ever going to get a title?

4-handed 40/80 mix, big O
I raise, sb calls, bb 3!, I 4!, bb caps.

BB shows up with (A67)23. Is this over-aggro or am I just salty?
SetofJacks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2018, 11:48 PM   #316
OnTheRail15
Pooh-Bah
 
OnTheRail15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Somewhere else
Posts: 4,263
Re: 2018 NC/LC THREAD - are we ever going to get a title?

Both.
OnTheRail15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2018, 11:52 PM   #317
SetofJacks
veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,296
Re: 2018 NC/LC THREAD - are we ever going to get a title?

Well the salty part was obviously true, glad I got a +1 for both.
SetofJacks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2018, 11:53 PM   #318
rodeo
veteran
 
rodeo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: i'll tell you when i get there
Posts: 3,107
Re: 2018 NC/LC THREAD - are we ever going to get a title?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkeyOnTilt View Post
I played in seat 9. My 7th trip to L.A. and my first time meeting several of those guys. Jean, Joshua and Chris were terrific humans. To anyone thinking about making the trip: Do it! I always have a complete blast and feel treated like a vip at the bike. Its why I keep coming back. The recently rekindled 40 game was super good!


Nice to meet you, man. Youíre a cool dude. Thanks for the kind words. See you in Vegas.
rodeo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2018, 05:48 PM   #319
MacauBound
old hand
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,583
Re: 2018 NC/LC THREAD - are we ever going to get a title?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Snyder View Post
My opinion is that the cost of having your hole cards and play exposed is quite significant. In the case of NLHE, it is rather apparent from the majority of even remotely meaningful hands in the bigger games that many regs have done little to no work studying the game away from the table and even when they are choosing the right hands to do things, their actual frequencies are not even close to what they should be. If I were to play on a stream again it would have to be either NLHE where I feel I could play poorly and still generate a winrate or games that are hard to play terribly on the first round and that I don't play very often (LHE oddly at the top of that list, followed by cap NLHE). My 1 experience on PNIA was great and something I'd happily do again, but I'd strongly prefer to never expose my play in any other big bet games (especially cap) or lowball games. Plus I wouldn't want anyone getting a hernia from laughing at how tight I play split pot games

Both PNIA and LATB are great products that provide a ton of entertainment value. I know I watch both regularly. But free coaching that can both help players improve to the point where they may be competing with me for the same money or to help people I'm playing with get better at beating me is about the last thing I'm interested in in the 2018 poker landscape.
Yeah I'd never want the lowball and mix stuff shown, cuz there's so much most half-decent players don't know about those games yet. Watching cards up SCOOP/WCOOP replays showed me things I never considered. I hope to learn stud hi someday but it's not going so well. Though I've never gleaned much from watching a lot of NL cards up, for one reason or another. Maybe it's no coincidence that Seidel (one of most underrated NL MTT players ever?) is also one of the most secretive players and despised hole cameras more than most.

Anyways, I'm a little tied up atm writing letters of disapproval, on moral grounds.
MacauBound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2018, 03:53 PM   #320
pokerONETWO
grinder
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: antifa meeting
Posts: 511
Re: 2018 NC/LC THREAD - are we ever going to get a title?

I'm almost completely convinced that Erik Seidel plays nl tournaments on Global Poker under the name seidizzle, I've played with him a bunch recently.

There's the name, but also that he plays quite the unique style that I've never seen an online reg play, and crushes.
pokerONETWO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2018, 01:13 AM   #321
jdr0317
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 6,161
Re: 2018 NC/LC THREAD - are we ever going to get a title?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerONETWO View Post
I'm almost completely convinced that Erik Seidel plays nl tournaments on Global Poker under the name seidizzle, I've played with him a bunch recently.

There's the name, but also that he plays quite the unique style that I've never seen an online reg play, and crushes.
I mean Seidel is unquestionably a smart dude with a history of playing above the rim, fwiw.
jdr0317 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2018, 09:02 PM   #322
DonJuan
old hand
 
DonJuan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lonely on Top
Posts: 1,311
Re: 2018 NC/LC THREAD - are we ever going to get a title?







Just to let you guys know even though my graphs looks great and I make good money I am not happy. I suffer from the pain of the past I would trade everything just to get the respect of all the big timer ex. Zomg.
DonJuan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2018, 09:09 PM   #323
DonJuan
old hand
 
DonJuan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lonely on Top
Posts: 1,311
Re: 2018 NC/LC THREAD - are we ever going to get a title?

Actually I won't be posting anymore graphs it just too much pain I suffer. It not fun winning money and not have any real 2+2 friends. The truth is I don't even like online poker and I dream of one day stepping in casino to meet all my idol but the fear of getting rejected keep holding me back it a vicious cycle.

Edit: I wasn't planning on posting my 6 max stats for fear of being look down. But if 2+2 taught me anything it that you have to be willing to hear criticism.


Last edited by DonJuan; 05-22-2018 at 09:14 PM.
DonJuan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2018, 09:19 PM   #324
OnTheRail15
Pooh-Bah
 
OnTheRail15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Somewhere else
Posts: 4,263
2018 NC/LC THREAD - are we ever going to get a title?

Someday Iíll have a winning month and be able to post my graph.

Last edited by OnTheRail15; 05-22-2018 at 09:19 PM. Reason: Jk Iíll never win.
OnTheRail15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2018, 10:08 PM   #325
DonkeyOnTilt
adept
 
DonkeyOnTilt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Canterbury's favorite tagfish
Posts: 994
Re: 2018 NC/LC THREAD - are we ever going to get a title?

Im in the midst of a big upswing and donjuan had to come in and remind me im just running hot.

Seriously though, nice graphs.
DonkeyOnTilt is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online