I really hate the beginner vs non beginner idea. I'd rather have just 1 forum.

Isn't it worth 5 cents to see his hand?

I agree w/ Lond: beginner vs. non sounds bad. Maybe just split online from live? Or just have one forum for limit.

He can probably see it in 24 hours if he wants to, but yeah, could be worth more than 5 cents that session.

In all my years of "always paying my own" I've only had one pro let me know that some may see it as angle shooting and while it's my right, I may want to reconsider.

I've never had a problem with "forgetting" as enough of the pros know I am consistent and always pay my own.

If it became more socially unacceptable at a place with reasonable social etiquette (not commerce) I'd switch no sweat. As is...nah.

you should have told him that you only do it because he angleshoots by playing tight in time pots

Haha BK, that is super douchey for that pro to accuse you of angle shooting in that spot. I would agree if you strategically alternate between paying your own time and not paying your own time, but that obv isn't the case. With me, it's mostly been a lot of sad puppy dog faces and "you you yoouuuu... don't chop in time pots??" type stuff which annoys me personally.

I mostly just think collection pots are dumb and wish they would go away, so I may be stretching a bit.

Time pots are awful and cringeworthy to even talk about at the table, iv had a guy in one of my games almost throw a tantrum when someone explained exactly why he didn't like it, even without getting into all the nit-angle aspects

Time flops should be more popular, they do make the game a little faster, plus making yourself look more loose in a limit game can be +ev

At the 30/60 Stud 8 game that has been going recently at Bellagio, they have been doing time pots (for time charge of $7), but on the first hand of the down the ante is $10 instead of $5. So effectively the pot is bigger on a time pot instead of smaller, so it should make people play looser instead of tighter.

Here's problem I've had before at commerce. I'm in a game with mostly regs and a spazzy pro opens UTG in time pot, I 3 bet and end up losing the hand. After the hand dealer asks her for time and she says she's always out and 1 two people agree she always pays her own time.

I believe her that she's always out but thats still not fair because she got to play the hand with complete information, she should have an idea what I am 3 betting vs and UTG open in a time pot but I played my entire hand assuming her range is what one would open in a time pot when in reality its what one opens UTG in a time pot when they are out of time (which is even lighter than a normal UTG open i guess).

So it really sucks when I lose extra bets on the 99x board because they accidentally forgot to say they are out of time pots and now they have 9x in their range when they otherwise never would (or never should).

Um no. The ante is effectively $3 instead of $5, so the pot is smaller and everyone should play tighter instead of looser

Oops, I made a mistake in my post you quoted. Everyone antes $15 instead of $5. So $10 extra, not $10 total.

In your post about the time pots at Commerce, shouldn't the woman who doesn't like time pots have had to pay her own time when the new dealer arrived, so you would know she was out? That's how it worked anywhere I played with time pots. Maybe they do it some different way there, but I can't imagine how that would work. If they really don't make her pay until after the time pot, and it is not clear to everyone who is in or out, that is definitely a terrible way for them to handle it.

At commerce they do it every half hour, not when the dealer changes. So if the dealer does a ****ty job of announcing the time pot it's possible not everyone knows.

Yeah, time flops are where its at. It caught on pretty well at Bellagio this past summer.

Out of curiosity, does the floor enforce this "bet"? So dealer sits, the only way out is to pay time immediately. If someone somehow has too small a stack, they have to pay time. If a 2 flops and the 2 seat doesn't want to pay, the dealer floor have to take care of it? I just wonder if you're effectively extending credit to everyone else at the table.

So a stack that is $20 short comes out as the payer or someone else refuses to pay, what happens?

Doug the answer is it happens in games big enough where people have ethics and if someone in the game has questionable ethics but guys want to gamble with him they will either make it super clear how the time works or that guy will pay his own or they will risk the small free roll

People are informed of time flop when they join table, the can agree to it or pay their own. Haven't run into the problem of someone not having enough in their stack to pay the time yet.

So occasionally getting free rolled is possible and the price of doing business. That seems reasonable. As a tourist, the Bellagio is one of the places I consider that I'm most likely to get angle shot. Maybe that's a small sample size of bad experiences? I've never played higher than 30/60 there, so maybe the games you and DrOlson play are better?

Yeah, I chop at my home casino but would never chop at Bellagio 20 or 40 games for that reason. I don't know the people and am too likely to get angled.

lol for real.

just do 2 forums. low stakes and mid/high stakes. not that hard. cutoff is 1020.

and dont tell me that your grueling online 3/6 game is equivalent to 4080 or whatever. mebbe it is. proly not. its still low stakes and belongs there.

the same posters will be replying in both forums anyway.

seems like an easy fix would to be to just ask everyone when you sit down if there's anyone paying their own time and adjust accordingly.

Easier fix is to pay your own time. And announce it on first time pot you win.

FYP

if what happened to jon happened to me, from then on, i'd make it a habit to ask if anyone has opted out as soon as i sat down.

there are always going to be people trying to angle. all we can do is try to come up with a system that prevents the most opportunities for angles, use it, and take the angles as they come. this is why i prefer time flops, fewer opportunities for angles.

You don't like the concept or you don't like the nomenclature?

The latter is easy to fix. Call it the "LHE: we'll coddle you and explain basic concepts slowly" and "LHE: look if you want free advice on how to beat bigger games you're expected to put in a ton of work on your own." Or whatever.

Admittedly, the former is not. Sure, it would be best if everyone just tried to be as nice as possible while giving good advice. But that has been an unpopular opinion when I've suggested that in the past. So two forums, one in which people expect basic concepts to be fully explained, one in which people are expected to understand basic concepts already, makes sense to me.

We could also have just one forum (the traffic really doesn't justify two forums) and leave it to peoples' discretion as to how to behave. But I think that puts a significant burden on the mods, plus, again from past experience, you're going to get a lot of not-nice comments directed at really nice, well-meaning people who happen to be really bad at poker. I'll point to a poster named threeducks who - god bless his soul - tried so so so so hard and failed so so so so hard. He literally changed his screen name so he could get a fresh start (and I think quit posting altogether when he started receiving really negative comments on his second account).

I'm averse to it because my game doesn't fit into your buckets. As exampled by someone else earlier, it can be moderately to very aggressive, but also very loose.

(It's one of the reasons I also don't post here very much, because lots of the reads that the experts here have about ranges are just way, way wrong for my game.)

But in the end I'd be OK with any of the suggestions. My very low-priority preference would be a single forum I think, with a requirement that you include the game type in the title so anyone can skip whatever threads don't interest them.