I agree.

It's also very clique.

lhe tends to make ppl pretty acerbic, to say the least.

anyway, looks like some of yall need a safe space.

Are we back in the political forum?

For example Victor had this super long rant in the computer science, programming, forum on how someone couldn't possible be a programmer, and is there for politics,and so on... victor is offered a bet on the matter and decides it isn't worth it. No apology. No nothing.

It is pretty absurd. From like the start of 2p2 until very recently, we could say pretty much anything to each other that did not involve genuine threats to harm another poster. Half the fun of poker is enjoying the freedom to act like a huge jerk and get away with it. If someone had an emo spazout, the solution was to form a kick circle around him until his body finally went limp... and then kick him a few more times just for the hell of it. Now we have to go to Commerce to get this experience which is a huge hassle. It is like the Black Friday of LC/NC posting, but it happened so gradually that we let it slide and do not have an exact date.

Forums are a relic of the past for communicating online.

As far as discussing strategy on a forum, why would a skilled person help a lesser skilled person in their efforts to compete for the same income that they are already competing for if the skilled person is not being offered significant compensation?

The tools to get better at every commonly played poker variant are readily available for consumers to purchase and use and are far more valuable than looking at individual hands on a forum. Some very basic use of software for no limit holdem, limit holdem and PLO will help an intelligent hard worker far exceed the skill of almost anyone they play with at almost any live stakes except the very highest.

Wow...what the hell happened to this forum? If you are going to just start banning people for disagreeing with you then I am done with this site as well. Just awful...

Hf

All of this made me think of this line.

https://youtu.be/rvYV0T0IIBI?t=1m52s

I'm guessing most skilled players gained their experience using several different modes of education. I'm sure reading posts from more experienced players have helped their development. When I first started posting in this forum 14 years ago I don't remember people complaining about not getting paid for their advise.

I'm not an expert, but I am more than happy to help out someone less skilled than myself. I think active partcipation in a forum including all skill levels is a good thing for the game of poker. These day's it's all about whats in it for me for most people which seems to be the way the world is trending.

I think if you really want to get paid you should advertise your skills by posting a lot. I can't think of a better way to advertise.

I think that's a nice take on the situation Mongodig. I post cus it's fun. It's interactive unlike tv or movies, which I find is its most entertaining aspect. Of course, there is going to be a pecking order established which some will adhere to and some won't. I don't think there's really much problem here, but then again I used to drive a cab; any cabbie knows that most cabbies carry a piece, so when the **** hits the fan between the cabbie 3 and the dispatcher, for example, and the cabbie says over the radio, "I'll tell you to your ****in face you little ****!" it would be wise to not butt in over the radio. Later, after the dust settles, you might get an unexpected knock on your window from cabbie 3.

I think the situation between Jon and Mason is much more respectful. By the way, cabbie 3 didn't get fired. Just sayin.

I often heard that teaching ( or even write your own book) had help many pro to had a better understanding of the game, guess probably it was bs.

Anyway, if you are playing 30/60 vs the same individual without helping the bottom end of the spectrum ( 4-8 for example), how would you expect to get their money if they never move up ?
I doubt a 4-8 player is threatening your income...Would you rather wait till your game dry up without new blood coming in eventually to replace the one that will get bored ( or die) and leave ?

I've always assumed that the smart, ambitious poker players looking to improve will do so with or without free forum advice. Weaker players without a strong drive to improve, will not improve much despite the availability of free valuable info. It takes a lot more than reading 2+2 to become a good player. It takes a lot of independent study and practice.

I actually think this free advice is wonderful for poker. The appeal of poker, for many players, is the idea that the good players do win in the long run and dream of improving becoming a great player. The fun of the game is figuring it out and figuring out what you could have done better. Offering help and advice makes these players excited to play and put what they learn to practice. Keeping this excitement going is more valuable than preventing these players from improving a little bit. IMO.

I read a lot of stupid things in this forum, but you just took things to an entirely new level. You have been posting here for a decade? You have been posting in the same threads as guys like Trypt, Oink, La Peste, etc.? My god. You should seriously just never play poker again. This is quite sad.

Mid-high players do not want you to move up if you play anything close to TAG/LAGTAG and have some basic post-flop fundamentals. Even though you are clearly a regfish, beating the rake against a regfish is always difficult below nosebleeds. And surely you understand that there is a huge difference between playing against a fish heads up vs. playing against you and a fish 3-handed? Or a huge difference between playing a 5-handed Commerce game at 3 AM with 4 fish vs. 4 fish + you? If you cannot immediately understand that the presence of a single regfish such as yourself at the table drastically damages my hourly rate, then you absolutely suck at life and should never publicly express thoughts about poker ever again.

OMFG... you seriously think world class players want small stakes 2p2ers moving into their games? They may claim that they do, but what they are really trying to do is intimidate you into never playing with them again. Mid-high players who only care about their hourly know that it is a disaster when a lower stakes grinder gets brave and permanently moves up, even if said grinder is a weakish pro.

The problem with strat threads nowadays are that you livetards have no idea who is and is not worth listening to. You consistently run off world class players while worshiping some regfish egomaniac who thinks he has everything figured out because he beats Commerce 40/80 and crushed Bovada for a few months. DonJuan might seriously be the best LHE player in the world right now. He was great pre-bf, he studies his ass off, he never gets tired, and he has continued to put up huge numbers in the most brutal LHE environment ever. But you livetards ran him off just like you run off every world class player who tries to enlighten you.

Why don't world class players post strat here anymore? Well, because they get constantly trolled and disrespected for starters. From a purely selfish perspective, posting strat publicly is quite stupid for a world class player. So be nice to them and put some truly hardcore effort into contributing to their threads. If you are cool and are busting your ass to fully understand the thread, they will inevitably learn from you occasionally.

Another thing that you livetards do not understand... world class players post strat under the assumption that you will happily return the favor and help them out if you make it to the top or have any useful information for them. Unfortunately, there are too many players who do make it to the top after learning from world class players only to disappear and become quite secretive later on.

Finally, please keep in mind that any top LHE player who has survived from BF until now knows who the other top LHE players are and likely interact with them quite often. They also can almost immediately tell based on a couple posts or a couple hours of live play whether or not you actually do deeply understand LHE. If these players don't seem to respect your LHE knowledge, it is time to ask yourself why... heck, maybe even ask them! In one sentence, they may be able to tell you something like "You obviously don't give a **** about math" or "You have a horrible case of fancy play syndrome that clouds your judgement" or "You consistently fall for river bluff raises" or some such. The only cure for livetardation is to turn down your ego and turn up your knowledge.

I am not sure if it is still there after the purge, but I recommend rolling back the clock to 2008-2009 and just reading strat thread from back then. Pick a hero like Oink or Tryptamean and just go through every thread they contribute to. Knowledge of proper LHE strategy has changed very little since then. The huge change in LHE came in 2006-2008 when the study of GTO and bot play became common among top players. These subjects were explored much more deeply and energetically back then.

Cliffs: Stop being such livetards and good things will happen.

Livetards **** up live poker too (as Unguarded alluded to talking about the Commerce) by criticizing bad plays and making it personal.

It also is hard to keep up w advancements in lhe, at least for me.

There are no advancements in LHE since 2009ish or so. The problem is that livetards are often a decade or more behind the rest of humanity.

Lol that was a pretty awesome post UG

super long post or half of a sentence?

wtf is with you people and constantly lying? heres hint, mebbe if you find it necessary to lie to support your argument, then you are actually wrong and should change your view.

I mean, wouldnt that be better than being a lying liar that lies?

and wtf does some idiot posting idiotic crap in the programming forum have to do with lhe?

So, I'll make up more lies (evidence).

Your turn to tell me I'm lying.... etc. The thread continues on where rafiki challenges Victor to a wager, with credentials, etc. and then Victor just backs off and is like, "ain't worth it". Pretty snooty, imho.

Regardless, you can just ask him what programming topics he's interested, what he's been working on, etc. to see if he knows what he's talking about.

add: You guys did not agree on terms when you decided to raise it to a million dollars, and he claimed not to have that much to escrow. And it ain't worth it unless it's a "cool million" for Victor. So, take it for what it's worth.

:/

no dude. you lied by saying that

when it was actually only half of a sentence.

and why you think I should be obligated to take on a bet that I did not bring up or even make any serious response to then I have no idea.

and yet again, I am still completely dumbfounded as to why wtf is going on in the friggin programming forum has anything to do with mid-high limit hold em.

as far as I can tell, the only real relation is that programming and lhe are 2 things in which I am far superior to you and you are harboring some deep seated jealousy. so I would advise you to work on mental state.

Hahaha. Ok. I was merely pointing out the elitism is not only perceived on the forums. It is real, and I linked to an example. That is all.

its not elitism to be correct. case in point, see Unguarded most recent post eviscerating a terrible post (and I will refrain from categorizing the poster how made such a misguided post)

Lol. Stop distracting from UG posts with your petty banter. This forum has had its fill of that recently.

See what happens when I turn my back for a few weeks?

It's happened before and it will happen again. I've been around poker strat forums since before Mason banned Abdul Jalib from 2p2.

I stayed away from 2p2 for years because of how Mason treated Abdul. (Also because there is no love lost between Mason and me, but that is a story I will not tell on 2p2, for reasons that I hope are obvious.) Eventually I realized that I was harming myself, and got involved. But when I got involved, I resolved that I would stay firmly away from disputing poker theory with Mason.

jon_locke, You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - the most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia" - but only slightly less well-known is this: Never get into an argument on Two Plus Two with Mason Malmuth when EV is on the line!

I'm sorry to see you go, Jon. You did a lot of good.

Responding UG's post

The health of the midstakes game is largely based on the number of business people in the game who are successful, and the number of trust-fundees in the game. The only time you really want a better than average low limit player is when you don't have enough players to form a game. But it's kind've a wash in some respects because many of the low limit players can't hack it for very long anyway and give all their winnings back from the lower game, and give more to the pool than take. They, without fail, cry about outs, and how you play bad, and so forth. And, they don't have the experience of a truly bad downswing, and will become utterly unhinged. Some do move up though, and stay. But, I'm sure you can think of people in your own game who moved up after doing fine at low limit, got addicted to the higher stake, stopped winning, and wound-up big losers.