Hi SetofJacks:

But in this particular situation, the pot is big, and if we can follow a strategy that increases our chance of winning the pot, even by just a small amount, it can be worth it. Again, see our book for more explanation and other examples of unusual plays that can increase your probability of winning a large pot.

Best wishes,
Mason

yeah i'm 100% on this boat, just seems like so many decisions in this hand were incorrect fullstop. would like to see some pokerstoves.

It can also be worth it to win a larger pot a smaller percentage of the time. Yes winning pots is good but a startegy aimed at winning more pots can also be flawed, and that's why we measure success in money won rather than pots won.

I'm sure we've all called a river bet and watched somebody turn over a horrible bluff that will never work and the say "its the only thing I could do to win the pot." I've heard this hundreds of times I'm sure and they are correct and their play will often increase the percenrage of times they win the pot (often from 0 to some number less than 5%). However, while they win the pot much more often they will often have significnatly more money check folding the river.

Sure we may win the pot more by limping pre-flop or adopting other strategies but that doesn't mean we will make more money.

Also, I think we win the pot more often when we 3 bet the flop and lead the turn than when we bet-call flop and donk turn, so thats another reason to 3 bet.

Lol'd. Yeah Jon, we'll basically know it's you without too much thinking.

The '..' was pretty hahaha confusing at the outset though.

Hi Everyone:

We have decided to temporarily ban the poster Jon_Locke for Post #1344 in this thread. Writing that someone, in this case me, stated things which were much different from what was actually stated and then explaining what's wrong with the incorrect statements to make the original poster, again me, look bad is something that needs to be addressed. (For those who want a fuller explanation see my Post #1361 above.)

We're hoping to soon have a discussion with the moderator who's been handling this thread for determining whether the ban should be lifted or extended.

Best wishes,
Mason

Mason,

Respectfully as someone who used to be a mod in one of the highest traffic forums on your site, this is a terrible decision.

Jon is one of the few remaining strong strategy posters consistently dispensing good advice in this forum and driving him off is a loss for the community here.

The worst thing you can do is reach a point where you feel you have nothing left to learn and that those who disagree with you must automatically be absurd for doing so. I suggest it would be worth your while to consider and learn why you receive such vigorous disagreement to some of the hands you post and take them as opportunities to learn. Surely you agree that there are people who are far better LHE players than you? From everything I've ever read on this site, I can tell you that Jon is one of them.

Well that point is moot as he already said he wouldn't be giving anymore strategy advice.

Hi MEb:

First, thanks for your post.

We'll be talking to the appropriate moderator to get his input and the final decision will not be made without his input. However, you need to understand that it's our policy on these forums to have vigorous debate but to also limit the insults, and when a poster does what Jon_Locke did in his Post #1344 where he changes what I wrote and then explains what's wrong with it, we take this type of stuff very seriously.

We have no desire to ban any posters from this site, especially one who contributes good strategy advice that many other posters like. However, it's against our policy to allow posters to attack other posters in personal ways, and we take this very seriously when the attack is directed towards someone, such as myself, who is in 2+2 management.

Best wishes,
Mason

welp

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Ban!

🤦🏽*♂️🤷🏽*♂️


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It is one thing to ban someone for a personal attack and another to do so for harsh criticism of a hand. 1344 post is much more the later than the former, Especially when viewed in light of typical attacking posts in this forum. Owners/mods should strive to have even thicker skins than average, because you wouldn’t want to give off the impression of banning someone for expressing a harsh viewpoint. This dulls discussion and forces good posters such as Jon away.

If you start banning people for mistating prior posts, there will be no one left.

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Isn't using multiple accounts to skirt bans against the rules here as well?

yes, wide berth for higher ups.

but, free Jon_Locke. !

After 8 people limped, our hero looked down at two red queens in the BB.

"Raise" said our hero.

It was at this moment that a temporal gateway to eternal damnation opened up under the chair of our hero, and he was promptly banished into the shadow realm.

The only way to play is a strategy outlined in 15 year old books. No debate. Get banned.

Forum is dead.

Mason,
Please post more and stop banning people.

For years you've been essentially absent from this subforum, which is basically a small (dysfunctional) family. To almost never post hands or offer advice only to come in and start banning valued members of this community is extremely detrimental to this forum.

Please consider unbanning Jon and joining us as a contributor (rather than as an authority).

Btw, as a counterpoint to the ideas presented, I recently had QQ in the BB, facing a raise from an aggressive player in a 7-way pot. I 3-bet, he 4-bet, and I capped. As the massive preflop favorite, I ended up taking down a huge pot by reraising preflop. The pot size difference considering preflop alone was 21 SB, or $420.

Or, we could have vigorous debate without creating duplicate accounts for deceitful purposes and then going out of our way to troll and insult the owner of the forum!

I'm guessing chillrob and Mason would get along really well IRL.

I have met him (once) in person, and we got along fine. Of course, I could say exactly the same thing about that_pope, whom I also met once or twice in person and got along with fine. And if you were the owner of this forum, I would also highly recommend that people who want to participate not go out of their way to troll you.

lololol he did no such thing.

and no its not that serious. it happens all the time on this board.

I think you should not attempt to make the decision appear less personal by using "we" rather than "I."

Since I'm in a charitable mood, let me make a specific suggestion to Mason in this vein: why don't you (Mason) take a hand you're legitimately confused about, post it here for discussion, and then write an article about what you learned from some of the world's best LHE players?