I think so too. His win rate is potentially higher against a table full of mediocre players who played fast, ime. So, table changing is an option. Otherwise, just deal with it.

Perhaps some math is in order. If the guy is throwing away 1 big bets a hand, for example, then depending on your position, you get a theoretical share of that each hand. 20 hands and hr is -20BB / hr. In that case, you have to stay, and put up with it. You'd think nobody could possibly play that bad, but at the extreme, we've all seen live ones that do that poorly. At least, they do their first times at the table, then usually the worst players are what, say, -4BB/hr?

From other player's perspectives, they don't get to be in a game where they are a winner too often. 20 / 8 is +2.5BB which will turn a -1.5BB loser into a 1BB winner. Even at -4 / 8, a -1.5BB loser is now only losing -1BB and is 2/3 less unproductive (or 3/2 as productive to avoid the double negative). Naturally, they will be more upset than you will be if the live one adjusts their play in an unfavorable way, and be the ones to say, "Don't rock the boat." It'd be very unfriendly to them. But, depending on how live the live one is, you can make a case for changing tables or putting up with it. But, it's a little too unfriendly for me personally to "rock the boat" in this circumstance.

Compare that with players who will lose ~0.4BB/hr, because you're getting more hands per hour. You'd be making 2.8BB/hr as the only winner among mediocre players playing fast. So, it depends on what you think your hourly rate estimation is at that table and whether you overcome the time handicap. The worst players are actually playing better by stalling if you consider time rather than hands.

I doubt anyone is going to be -20 BB / hour when you're getting just 20 hands an hour.

FTR the worst player I've ever seen (sample size > 2k hands) had a "win rate" of -17 BB/100, which you can draw some serious conclusions on even at just 5k hands. This guy may actually have been worse, but even then, it'd be a stretch to say he was losing at -5 BB / hr.

There are some perks to a guy like this, though. Like it makes the smaller fish play looser to "get in pots" against him, and because he's boring them with how ridiculously slow he's making the game play. Suddenly, the AJ95 the small loser would normally just fold. Hey, it can make a wheel.

I don't think you understand: either my point or what game theory really is.


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GTO means literally "Game Theory Optimal". So, you can't optimize it without making computations with the aid of computers. You underestimate how broad of a statement you make when you say "GTO literally is the whole game."

You think the game's solution is simply a way to play the game. But it's not: a game's solution actually describes the game. This holds no matter how complex the game's solution is.


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Some thoughts.

1. I don't think that.
2. No, a game's solution literally does not describe the game. The rules of the game describe the game. The game's solution describes the game's solution.
3. You're talking about a utopia. So, by all means.
   1. N-player games have people trying to squeeze each other out of pots, and other complexities. It's not clear whether there is a GTO solution even to the simplified game of poker excluding other aspects of the game.
   2. There are games within games, such as seat changing, which is widely accepted as poker theory.
   3. Poker tells exist, and are widely accepted as part of poker theory, as well as poker psychology.
4. It isn't even clear whether multi-player poker games have a solution.

I mean, sure, computers can compute anything given it's in a Turing compliant language, and infinite hardware. But, be practical. GTO will be, at least in my lifetime, a simplified version of poker that will yield useful mathematical insight, not the whole game.

This is a good point. People don't adjust well to the "live one", and try to greedily over-exploit.

Selling @1.45 for the 10k/20k mix game in bobby's room. I think I have a big edge on trueteller in particular, so I'll be looking to get position on him.

Haven't received many takers so far, can't figure out why.

Hi folks, remember me?

I've been away from poker for rather a while. I quit playing professionally for the excellent reason that I had stopped winning.

I got reminded at one point that I had a little bit of money on Black Chip Poker (WPN) that for all intents and purposes was unwithdrawable, so this summer I've decided to mess around at microstakes. LHE 6max goes off and on at the .25-.50 and .50-1.00 level fairly often.

I'm getting my poker brain back.

anyone play poker on their phone while playing live?

i'm tempted to bring my laptop so I can multitable. :-D

in be4 online kids ruin live game experience. ::sad but true face::

" ... but I don't have a problem."

I used to play ignition on my tablet while playing live, but the latest update made it so I couldn't click on any buttons from my tablet : (

No money in online LHE, everyone's solid. HUHU is solved and low stakes are mostly bots

Pull the other one; it has bells on.

True story: the other day I sucked out on someone and they started going off in chat about how terrible I was. I replied, "Well, actually I used to do this for a living." That really set them off. Implied tilt odds FTW.

It was particularly funny because they actually were a decent player, making no obvious mistakes to my eye when the rest of the table was full of openlimping, coldcalling clowns.

I used to do that, but it can be tough to multitask it.

Fun NL Hands:

2/3/5 $800 effective

UTG straddles, I pop to $40 with QQ, button cold calls, straddle calls. Flop comes 10, 5, 2 rainbow. Straddle checks, I continuation bet $80, button calls, straddle folds. Turn is a six. I bet $200, button calls. I eliminate AK and peg button for Ace-Ten. River is a King and I ship. Villain tanks for 40 seconds and mutters 'I shouldn't call' then calls with Aces. Villain says in a very Jennifer Tilly-esque manner, 'I thought you hit a set'.

2/3/5 $2100 effective

Villain opens UTG 6 handed for $20. CO calls, I call the small blind with 25cc. Big blind calls. Flop comes Jack 10 5 rainbow. Villain continues with $60 and I call. CO and big blind fold. Turn is a deuce* Villains bets $110 and I peg him on Aces. I raise to $300 he calls without thinking too much. River is a 9. Well KQ is the nuts and I'm pretty sure villain folds that on the turn. I bet $300 and he calls. Villain rolls over 55.

Bad reads

I never have to make that read with 52s vs a 4x open while oop playing 400bb deep. Sucks to lose those big pots, but snap fold pf on the second hand.

If not pf then otf for sure.

While we're on the subject of 2/5 NL, fun slowroll hand:

Hero opens in EP with QQ to $15 or $20. Next player in 3! to $60. Two players call, including villain, who is last to call. Hero 4! to $240. Folds to villain who calls, with approximately $40 left behind after the call.

Flop 543r. Villain ships for $40 and Hero calls. Turn T. River 6. Villain declares, "You got it," and then turns over A7s.

Hero wonders whether fastrolling his hand would have won the pot.

You were likely being trolled. Fastrolling would not help here.

Live at the Bike LHE 20/40: Streaming Live Limit Hold'em

Chava is my man. Fun to play with. You got it you got it homeboy.

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"Why did you call..."

"I'm losing, I'm gambling!"

"Why did you do this to me..."

hahaha

chava is good for poker. period.