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Old 01-22-2019, 11:34 AM   #1
Sandwich
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20-40 QsTs

Early-ish in the session, but lots of aggressive play from both opponents so far, and I'm probably perceived as a nit. Aggressive EP player opens, it folds to me in the CO with QT. I raise. BB calls, EP calls.
Flop is AJT
BB checks, EP bets, I call, BB calls.
Turn is 6
BB checks, EP bets, I call, BB calls.
River is 3
BB bets out, EP folds, I fold.

Comments on any street please?
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Old 01-22-2019, 02:36 PM   #2
holmfries
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Re: 20-40 QsTs

I think PF is the only debate. You need a super special read that he is laggy to 3! QTs against an EP raiser, which it sounds like you have. Rest of the hand seems super standard to me.
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Old 01-27-2019, 04:14 AM   #3
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Re: 20-40 QsTs

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Originally Posted by holmfries View Post
I think PF is the only debate. You need a super special read that he is laggy to 3! QTs against an EP raiser, which it sounds like you have. Rest of the hand seems super standard to me.
You can't have this good a read against an unknown "earlyish in the session". Just fold preflop.

If I really thought villain was nutty enough that 3 betting preflop was correct, I might throw in a raise somewhere postflop to try drop the third player.
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Old 01-27-2019, 01:53 PM   #4
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Re: 20-40 QsTs

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Originally Posted by chillrob View Post
You can't have this good a read against an unknown "earlyish in the session". Just fold preflop.

If I really thought villain was nutty enough that 3 betting preflop was correct, I might throw in a raise somewhere postflop to try drop the third player.


Just because it might be right to 3 bet the guy pre doesnít imply that we should raise third pair w a gut shot post. We have new info now. Pre is totally fine but fold is ok also, itís one of those hands that defines style and image cuz itís probably close to neutral. Rest looks good to me. I would have checked back flop if I had the chance.
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Old 01-30-2019, 07:21 PM   #5
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Re: 20-40 QsTs

turn we are getting 7:1 not closing the action on a paired board. seems pretty bad.
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Old 01-30-2019, 07:29 PM   #6
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Re: 20-40 QsTs

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turn we are getting 7:1 not closing the action on a paired board. seems pretty bad.
Not a paired board.
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Old 02-04-2019, 10:22 PM   #7
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Re: 20-40 QsTs

Is it definitely raise or fold pre?
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Old 02-11-2019, 12:14 AM   #8
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Re: 20-40 QsTs

its call or fold pre.

reraising is suicide against an aggressive player you cant run off.
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Old 02-11-2019, 12:17 AM   #9
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Re: 20-40 QsTs

and if just called and a flop like that you can just fold to a bet.
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Old 02-12-2019, 02:03 AM   #10
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Re: 20-40 QsTs

Flatting pre and folding this flop to 1 bet is weak.
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Old 02-12-2019, 02:46 AM   #11
Ray Zee
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Re: 20-40 QsTs

this hand maybe should have been folded pre. that is weak as well. and many hands are played better weak than strong.
when you spot the other player a better hand it usually pays to have a smaller pot early on and easy to get out.
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Old 02-19-2019, 08:57 AM   #12
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Re: 20-40 QsTs

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Not a paired board.
lol not sure why I read the ten as an ace.

still dont think you are getting odds to call the turn. at best you have 9 outs but they are dirty as hell to the point I think you can halve them.
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Old 02-20-2019, 08:23 AM   #13
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Re: 20-40 QsTs

Nice hand.
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Old 02-21-2019, 09:01 PM   #14
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Re: 20-40 QsTs

I hate everything. PF, I think classic "raise or fold" situation. Fold is fine -- hand is meh. But if you're going to play this hand, get heads up in position as aggressor.

As played on flop, you're in trouble. Raise reps A, but you didn't raise PF, so it's a hard sell. It's just a tough situation; you have no idea where you are.

On turn, you're getting 6:1 with unclean outs and no idea where you stand. Do you think you're ahead sometimes? I suppose it's possible, but hard to imagine.

River is more blech. BB's lead looks strong. Hard to believe you're ahead. But 8:1 with last action. Bet you wished you had raised PF now
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Old 02-21-2019, 09:17 PM   #15
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20-40 QsTs

Quote:
Originally Posted by tipperdog View Post
I hate everything. PF, I think classic "raise or fold" situation. Fold is fine -- hand is meh. But if you're going to play this hand, get heads up in position as aggressor.

As played on flop, you're in trouble. Raise reps A, but you didn't raise PF, so it's a hard sell. It's just a tough situation; you have no idea where you are.

On turn, you're getting 6:1 with unclean outs and no idea where you stand. Do you think you're ahead sometimes? I suppose it's possible, but hard to imagine.

River is more blech. BB's lead looks strong. Hard to believe you're ahead. But 8:1 with last action. Bet you wished you had raised PF now


Not sure to what hand post youíre replying. You got pre flop wrong as well as turn odds.

Last edited by rodeo; 02-21-2019 at 09:35 PM.
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Old 02-21-2019, 10:27 PM   #16
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Re: 20-40 QsTs

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Not sure to what hand post youíre replying. You got pre flop wrong as well as turn odds.
Oh s$%@ you're right. As they used to say on SNL...Nevermind.

I'd fold the turn (tained outs, not closing action, etc.) but everything else I said is...Nevermind.
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Old 03-03-2019, 04:15 PM   #17
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Re: 20-40 QsTs

I would fold preflop without giving it much thought. QTs shouldn't be in our 3-betting range here. (We shouldn't have a cold-calling range, because it's limit hold'em.)
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Old 03-03-2019, 05:36 PM   #18
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20-40 QsTs

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Originally Posted by AlanBostick View Post
I would fold preflop without giving it much thought. QTs shouldn't be in our 3-betting range here. (We shouldn't have a cold-calling range, because it's limit hold'em.)

I disagree with your statements. It is reasonable and viable to use either option as part of a winning strategy in LHE.
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Old 03-10-2019, 07:38 PM   #19
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Re: 20-40 QsTs

throwing in a three bet here never
mixing it up just hurts your whole range
it is not deep stack no limit they cant make use of the fact that you dont three with weak combos at all vs ep
you can have capped ranges in limit
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Old 03-11-2019, 05:01 PM   #20
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Re: 20-40 QsTs

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Originally Posted by Ray Zee View Post
its call or fold pre.

reraising is suicide against an aggressive player you cant run off.
I really doubt it. I think the hand was played perfectly.
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Old 03-11-2019, 08:29 PM   #21
leavesofliberty
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Re: 20-40 QsTs

fold > raise > call
woud rather wait for mid psitiin raiser to start mixing this in
would rather more judiciously mix up how to play narrow range than mix in pre semi-bluffs until its more likely your opponent is on a steal
tend to think mixing it up this way is overrated

but if i am playing it it is for 3bets and turning it into a bluff depending on what the flop brings
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Old 03-19-2019, 10:04 PM   #22
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Re: 20-40 QsTs

Do we not have a bluffing range in this flop spot? If we do, what better bluff candidates are there?
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Old 03-22-2019, 09:54 PM   #23
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Re: 20-40 QsTs

If you were to have a perfectly balanced range in this spot your bluff range would be tiny even against a perfectly exploitative gto field of players.

That said this may be the perfect hand to do it with though and if you say you're likely to be seen as nitty it's not that hard to imagine them folding enough to be worthwhile. Also being perceived as a nit makes it less likely you get played back and in the event that two players come along for the flop raise you can just take a free card.

It's just such an unusual spot to have a hand to bluff with that i like it. Not if it's my first hand at the table. But definitely if i've been quiet for a while, haven't had any bluffs shown down and ideally have shown down hands where they've seen me play medium strong hands defensively.
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