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20-40 QsTs 20-40 QsTs

01-22-2019 , 11:34 AM
Early-ish in the session, but lots of aggressive play from both opponents so far, and I'm probably perceived as a nit. Aggressive EP player opens, it folds to me in the CO with QT. I raise. BB calls, EP calls.
Flop is AJT
BB checks, EP bets, I call, BB calls.
Turn is 6
BB checks, EP bets, I call, BB calls.
River is 3
BB bets out, EP folds, I fold.

Comments on any street please?
20-40 QsTs Quote
01-22-2019 , 02:36 PM
I think PF is the only debate. You need a super special read that he is laggy to 3! QTs against an EP raiser, which it sounds like you have. Rest of the hand seems super standard to me.
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01-27-2019 , 04:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by holmfries
I think PF is the only debate. You need a super special read that he is laggy to 3! QTs against an EP raiser, which it sounds like you have. Rest of the hand seems super standard to me.
You can't have this good a read against an unknown "earlyish in the session". Just fold preflop.

If I really thought villain was nutty enough that 3 betting preflop was correct, I might throw in a raise somewhere postflop to try drop the third player.
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01-27-2019 , 01:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
You can't have this good a read against an unknown "earlyish in the session". Just fold preflop.

If I really thought villain was nutty enough that 3 betting preflop was correct, I might throw in a raise somewhere postflop to try drop the third player.


Just because it might be right to 3 bet the guy pre doesn’t imply that we should raise third pair w a gut shot post. We have new info now. Pre is totally fine but fold is ok also, it’s one of those hands that defines style and image cuz it’s probably close to neutral. Rest looks good to me. I would have checked back flop if I had the chance.
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01-30-2019 , 07:21 PM
turn we are getting 7:1 not closing the action on a paired board. seems pretty bad.
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01-30-2019 , 07:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor
turn we are getting 7:1 not closing the action on a paired board. seems pretty bad.
Not a paired board.
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02-04-2019 , 10:22 PM
Is it definitely raise or fold pre?
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02-11-2019 , 12:14 AM
its call or fold pre.

reraising is suicide against an aggressive player you cant run off.
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02-11-2019 , 12:17 AM
and if just called and a flop like that you can just fold to a bet.
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02-12-2019 , 02:03 AM
Flatting pre and folding this flop to 1 bet is weak.
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02-12-2019 , 02:46 AM
this hand maybe should have been folded pre. that is weak as well. and many hands are played better weak than strong.
when you spot the other player a better hand it usually pays to have a smaller pot early on and easy to get out.
20-40 QsTs Quote
02-19-2019 , 08:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
Not a paired board.
lol not sure why I read the ten as an ace.

still dont think you are getting odds to call the turn. at best you have 9 outs but they are dirty as hell to the point I think you can halve them.
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02-20-2019 , 08:23 AM
Nice hand.
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02-21-2019 , 09:01 PM
I hate everything. PF, I think classic "raise or fold" situation. Fold is fine -- hand is meh. But if you're going to play this hand, get heads up in position as aggressor.

As played on flop, you're in trouble. Raise reps A, but you didn't raise PF, so it's a hard sell. It's just a tough situation; you have no idea where you are.

On turn, you're getting 6:1 with unclean outs and no idea where you stand. Do you think you're ahead sometimes? I suppose it's possible, but hard to imagine.

River is more blech. BB's lead looks strong. Hard to believe you're ahead. But 8:1 with last action. Bet you wished you had raised PF now
20-40 QsTs Quote
02-21-2019 , 09:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tipperdog
I hate everything. PF, I think classic "raise or fold" situation. Fold is fine -- hand is meh. But if you're going to play this hand, get heads up in position as aggressor.

As played on flop, you're in trouble. Raise reps A, but you didn't raise PF, so it's a hard sell. It's just a tough situation; you have no idea where you are.

On turn, you're getting 6:1 with unclean outs and no idea where you stand. Do you think you're ahead sometimes? I suppose it's possible, but hard to imagine.

River is more blech. BB's lead looks strong. Hard to believe you're ahead. But 8:1 with last action. Bet you wished you had raised PF now


Not sure to what hand post you’re replying. You got pre flop wrong as well as turn odds.

Last edited by rodeo; 02-21-2019 at 09:35 PM.
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02-21-2019 , 10:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodeo
Not sure to what hand post you’re replying. You got pre flop wrong as well as turn odds.
Oh s$%@ you're right. As they used to say on SNL...Nevermind.

I'd fold the turn (tained outs, not closing action, etc.) but everything else I said is...Nevermind.
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03-03-2019 , 04:15 PM
I would fold preflop without giving it much thought. QTs shouldn't be in our 3-betting range here. (We shouldn't have a cold-calling range, because it's limit hold'em.)
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03-03-2019 , 05:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanBostick
I would fold preflop without giving it much thought. QTs shouldn't be in our 3-betting range here. (We shouldn't have a cold-calling range, because it's limit hold'em.)

I disagree with your statements. It is reasonable and viable to use either option as part of a winning strategy in LHE.
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03-10-2019 , 07:38 PM
throwing in a three bet here never
mixing it up just hurts your whole range
it is not deep stack no limit they cant make use of the fact that you dont three with weak combos at all vs ep
you can have capped ranges in limit
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03-11-2019 , 05:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Zee
its call or fold pre.

reraising is suicide against an aggressive player you cant run off.
I really doubt it. I think the hand was played perfectly.
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03-11-2019 , 08:29 PM
fold > raise > call
woud rather wait for mid psitiin raiser to start mixing this in
would rather more judiciously mix up how to play narrow range than mix in pre semi-bluffs until its more likely your opponent is on a steal
tend to think mixing it up this way is overrated

but if i am playing it it is for 3bets and turning it into a bluff depending on what the flop brings
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03-19-2019 , 10:04 PM
Do we not have a bluffing range in this flop spot? If we do, what better bluff candidates are there?
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03-22-2019 , 09:54 PM
If you were to have a perfectly balanced range in this spot your bluff range would be tiny even against a perfectly exploitative gto field of players.

That said this may be the perfect hand to do it with though and if you say you're likely to be seen as nitty it's not that hard to imagine them folding enough to be worthwhile. Also being perceived as a nit makes it less likely you get played back and in the event that two players come along for the flop raise you can just take a free card.

It's just such an unusual spot to have a hand to bluff with that i like it. Not if it's my first hand at the table. But definitely if i've been quiet for a while, haven't had any bluffs shown down and ideally have shown down hands where they've seen me play medium strong hands defensively.
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03-26-2019 , 11:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodeo
I disagree with your statements. It is reasonable and viable to use either option as part of a winning strategy in LHE.
I can see this being on the rock bottom of a 3 range in this situation. Isolate and have position over an exploitable player, maybe with some dead money in the pot by making BB take two to three face.

I did a similar thing last season with KTo to a TAG I saw go on tilt preflop but then make multiple frustrated laydowns. But here was in later position in that case...
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05-13-2019 , 08:41 PM
Pre is fine as long as you are confident in UTG's wideness. And there is some small value in showing this down and gaining future value on your top end 3bet hands later in similar configurations.
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