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Old 09-09-2017, 10:18 AM   #1
JANITOR385
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20/40 early position

I sweated this hand for a canterbury 20/40 tag reg who is a big winner in the game and was a little surprised and wondering preflop what people think. In addition thoughts on flop action heads up. Utg+2 he opens A7 and gets 2 late position cold callers and sb call then the big blind who is a tight passive dealer at canterbury park three bets who I've seen flat A K and A Q. Hero calls and everyone calls. Flop A:J8. The tight 3 better checks then hero fires obviously. Then everyone folds back to bb and C/R. Hero 3! Then gets a 4! hu and hero calls. Turn Q bet call then river 10 and river goes check check and shows JJ. I told him after the hand that's why u don't raise A7 s and he disagreed while he's the pro and I'm just a 8/16 player. I personally fold pre in this spot and am not shy to admit I play like a knit. What are your thoughts and does the flop action warrant a 3! when the only hand is ahead of when she C/R is KQ? The usual hand to run into is A Js AK J J and A A so should hero even 3! Hu?
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Old 09-09-2017, 10:57 AM   #2
AlanBostick
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Re: 20/40 early position

In a nine-handed game, UTG+2 is the the lowjack seat, three spots from the button. A7s is a fine hand to be opening with in that position, although in a game where multiple coldcallers are common one might want to dial it back a bit. Tight-passive 3!s the BB with an opener and two late callers, yeah, that's a sign of strength, but we aren't throwing away for one more bet.

Top pair plus nut flush draw is a strong hand, and betting when the BB donk-checks is natural and obvious.

When the BB k/r's having the preflop initiative, though, that's an unusual line, and it generally means strength. Our hand might be good now, and we might well draw out for the win, but we are far less likely to be good than before the k/r. I think putting the fourth bet in against a tight-passive is spewy. (It is read-dependent; it might be the right thing to do against many LAGs.) Obviously, we are showdown-bound, but a semibluff isn't a semibluff, because the only way to win it has is by getting there.

We spewed extra bets on the flop, but otherwise the hand played out normally. No, this is not why you don't open with A7s; it's why you don't put in five bets with top pair weak kicker and a flush draw on the flop versus a tight-passive.
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Old 09-09-2017, 04:02 PM   #3
DonkeyOnTilt
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Re: 20/40 early position

I don't think there is a cp dealer that plays 20 that I wouldn't slow down to the flop check raise. They all play pretty straightforward. I'd be looking to raise turn improvement.

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Old 09-09-2017, 05:32 PM   #4
jdr0317
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Re: 20/40 early position

If I was MMW I'd keep jamming. HU I'm looking to call twice and maybe call the river.
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Old 09-09-2017, 05:55 PM   #5
chillrob
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Re: 20/40 early position

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanBostick View Post
In a nine-handed game, UTG+2 is the the lowjack seat, three spots from the button.
I'm ok with opening A7s here if it is a 9 handed game, but you're off on the count, it would only be the "lowjack", 3 off button, if it's an 8 handed game.

Yet another reason why we should specify all positions from the button, not from the blinds.
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Old 09-09-2017, 05:57 PM   #6
DonkeyOnTilt
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Re: 20/40 early position

A7s is a totally legit open in this position in this game as the player pool opens, defends and 3bets worse.
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Old 09-09-2017, 06:48 PM   #7
phunkphish
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Re: 20/40 early position

A7s is close. I'd lean towards folding, or telling others to fold, esp in rake game.

Flop 3b is bad.
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Old 09-09-2017, 08:33 PM   #8
asmitty
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Re: 20/40 early position

It's fine to open A7s in this position, but not if you are going to spew on the flop after SB takes a weird and very strong line and piss away one of the main advantages of being in position.
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Old 09-09-2017, 09:05 PM   #9
SetofJacks
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Re: 20/40 early position

A7s is an easy open from this position and you should even be opening much wider.
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Old 09-09-2017, 10:57 PM   #10
maka2184
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Re: 20/40 early position

Preflop is fine.

Postflop is a disaster in my opinion unless HERO at Canterbury had ton of history / meta with Villain and sick reads.
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Old 09-10-2017, 11:51 AM   #11
steveistheman84
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Re: 20/40 early position

Quote:
Originally Posted by phunkphish View Post
A7s is close. I'd lean towards folding, or telling others to fold, esp in rake game.

Flop 3b is bad.
+1
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Old 09-11-2017, 05:28 AM   #12
HUMBLE.
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Re: 20/40 early position

pro was most likely making a terrible free card attempt.
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Old 09-11-2017, 05:42 PM   #13
colt45ss
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Re: 20/40 early position

tight passives don't ever 4 bet draws.
some don't even 4 bet two pair
just call the check raise respect the strength and hope the board doesn't pair when/if you catch the flush
pre-flop seems pretty standard

Last edited by colt45ss; 09-11-2017 at 05:44 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 09-13-2017, 03:19 PM   #14
holmfries
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Re: 20/40 early position

PF and flop seem fairly read and game dependent so not sure how much real feedback you are going to get on this hand
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Old 09-15-2017, 08:38 AM   #15
monikrazy
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Re: 20/40 early position

Fold pre, flop 3! Is extremely optimistic given the action
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Old 09-17-2017, 12:12 PM   #16
SenorGuzman
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Re: 20/40 early position

Quote:
Originally Posted by JANITOR385 View Post
I sweated this hand for a canterbury 20/40 tag reg who is a big winner in the game and was a little surprised and wondering preflop what people think. In addition thoughts on flop action heads up. Utg+2 he opens A7 and gets 2 late position cold callers and sb call then the big blind who is a tight passive dealer at canterbury park three bets who I've seen flat A K and A Q. Hero calls and everyone calls. Flop A:J8. The tight 3 better checks then hero fires obviously. Then everyone folds back to bb and C/R. Hero 3! Then gets a 4! hu and hero calls. Turn Q bet call then river 10 and river goes check check and shows JJ. I told him after the hand that's why u don't raise A7 s and he disagreed while he's the pro and I'm just a 8/16 player. I personally fold pre in this spot and am not shy to admit I play like a knit. What are your thoughts and does the flop action warrant a 3! when the only hand is ahead of when she C/R is KQ? The usual hand to run into is A Js AK J J and A A so should hero even 3! Hu?
Hola, JANITOR285. Lo siento mucho que mi Ingles no es muy bueno, pero voy a tratar explicar las problemas con este mano.

Antes del flop esta bien. La gente que son en el 20/40 a Canterbury van a llamar con mucha basura como 98o y KTo y A3o. A7s esta bien para raise. Voy a raise that **** todo los dias de utg +2.

En el flop tu amigo juega muy, muy, muy pinche mal. Muy. Pinche. Mal. Cuando el cabron en el BB c/r después de tres-bet antes del flop, el tiene exactamente 2 manos: AA o JJ. No hay mas. No tiene 88. No tiene AK. No tiene AJ. No tiene KdQd. Tiene AA o JJ. Su mano es mas fácil para leer que un libro de Dr Suess. Tu amigo no puede leer libros de Dr Suess? Dios mío!!!!

Tu amigo es muy pinche tonto para raise el flop. Muy pinche tonto.

Tu amigo no es bueno a poker. No es bueno a todo. Y el piensa que es un "pro"?!?!?! HAHAHAHAHA. No. El debe buscar un trabajo imediatamente, porque en 3-4 meses tu amigo va estar BUSTO.

Te banas y tomas agua,

SrGuzman

Last edited by SenorGuzman; 09-17-2017 at 12:28 PM.
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Old 09-20-2017, 10:33 AM   #17
SplawnDarts
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Re: 20/40 early position

Open the A7s. Just don't play it horrible.

Flop 3! SUCKS if villain is as tight as advertised (JJ+, AK?). If there weren't cards to come, you wouldn't even bet the flop (doing so loses 2 bets to 8 combinations of AA,JJ,AK and wins 0 or 1 bet from 12 combinations of KK, QQ). With the flush draw equity you're probably forced to bet (although making almost no money doing it) but once villain's range collapses to AA,JJ,AK you're a 3:2 dog and need to shut it down and draw. Fold river unimproved. Bet/raise unpaired flushes and call down on 7s and paired flushes. Aces no good.
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Old 09-20-2017, 11:07 AM   #18
SplawnDarts
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Re: 20/40 early position

There's a minor error in my previous post that it won't let me change for some reason - there are 12 combinations that get you check-raised on the flop, not 8. The conclusion remains the same.
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