20/40 Big Blind vs Button KT - Medium Stakes Poker Forum

Two Plus Two Forums Poker Strategy Other Poker Games Mid-High Stakes Limit

20/40 Big Blind vs Button KT

Post Reply Subscribe

...

Page 1 of 2

1 2

Page 1 of 2

1 2

07-19-2019 , 10:35 AM

checkraisdraw

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 2,876

Fold to pretty maniacal button who raises, I call in bb with black kt.

Flop Kh 7d 5d I x/r she call

turn 9d I bet she raise... I will now amend my read to specify that I had not seen her make moves on the turn before.

Quote

07-19-2019 , 01:12 PM

OnTheRail15

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 4,339

Quote:

Originally Posted by checkraisdraw

Literally the easiest calldown in the history of poker. What else were you considering?

Quote

07-19-2019 , 01:15 PM

NittyOldMan1

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 1,435

if you never folded top pair heads up i doubt you'd ever be making a mistake

Quote

07-20-2019 , 03:25 AM

bruce

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 1,318

Folding isn’t an option. Raising unless I’m missing something isn’t an option. I’d therefore call.

Quote

07-20-2019 , 08:10 AM

alew22

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 619

I’d 3bet this pre if the button is really a maniac. As played, call down for sure.

Quote

07-20-2019 , 03:02 PM

holmfries

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 6,301

Quote:

Originally Posted by alew22

I’d 3bet this pre if the button is really a maniac. As played, call down for sure.

What is you plan for various flops if you are 3! vs a maniac button open?

Quote

07-20-2019 , 04:38 PM

DeathDonkey

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 12,875

Quote:

Originally Posted by holmfries

What is you plan for various flops if you are 3! vs a maniac button open?

Sometimes bet and sometimes check depending on how much we like the flop? I wouldn’t 3 bet KTo but KTs I probably would so agree we need a plan. But the plan is pretty straight forward.

Quote

07-20-2019 , 10:38 PM

holmfries

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 6,301

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathDonkey

Sometimes bet and sometimes check depending on how much we like the flop? I wouldn’t 3 bet KTo but KTs I probably would so agree we need a plan. But the plan is pretty straight forward.

I just think it is an interesting scenario that may elicit some good discussion for some of the lower limit players. Like say you three get the maniac here with KdTs, what is your plan for flops like:

Q82ssd
J88hhd
532hds
A92ddh

Just a few examples where we don’t flop a pair or a straight draw and we will often get raised super light.

Quote

07-21-2019 , 02:38 AM

stinkypete

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,783

Quote:

Originally Posted by alew22

I’d 3bet this pre if the button is really a maniac. As played, call down for sure.

Building a pot now so you have to see a showdown out of position with king ten high isn't really a great plan. Just call and make your hand and get your value from the maniac later.

Quote

07-21-2019 , 11:58 AM

#10

alew22

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 619

Quote:

Originally Posted by stinkypete

Building a pot now so you have to see a showdown out of position with king ten high isn't really a great plan. Just call and make your hand and get your value from the maniac later.

So calling and check/folding most flops is a better plan? You say “make your hand” like it’s easy to hit pairs. I’d rather have initiative with what is most likely the best hand.

Quote

07-21-2019 , 11:59 AM

#11

alew22

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 619

Quote:

Originally Posted by holmfries

I actually expect us to get more folds on these flops rather than getting raised super light.

Quote

07-21-2019 , 12:02 PM

#12

stinkypete

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,783

Quote:

Originally Posted by alew22

So calling and check/folding most flops is a better plan? I’d rather have initiative with what is most likely the best hand.

You're bad at logic

Quote

07-21-2019 , 01:03 PM

#13

alew22

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 619

Quote:

Originally Posted by stinkypete

You're bad at logic

And you’re always right, apparently.

Quote

07-21-2019 , 01:21 PM

#14

reaper6788

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 3,860

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheRail15

Literally the easiest calldown in the history of poker. What else were you considering?

This so much. Speed calldown through any river without a second thought.

I'm not even sure I'd fold to a passive player here. It's heads up and I have top pair. I'm only maybe folding where both one card flush and one card straight are possible at the turn and I have neither... maybe.

Quote

07-21-2019 , 01:27 PM

#15

reaper6788

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 3,860

Quote:

Originally Posted by holmfries

I just think it is an interesting scenario that may elicit some good discussion for some of the lower limit players. Like say you three get the maniac here with KdTs, what is your plan for flops like:

Q82ssd

J88hhd

532hds

A92ddh

Just a few examples where we don’t flop a pair or a straight draw and we will often get raised super light.

Depending on how maniac they are, I check call all these flops.

Don't have stove on mobile but I think Khi is a monster against 100% button open range + 100% cbet.

Heh in fact I'm having a flash back of playing a LAG at the Venetian that somehow started to think I was weak tight and I caught doing crazy crap. After that I called him down with King hi type stuff. Ten minutes later a friend of his came to the table and shouted "who's the guy who called you with King hi?!"

Quote

07-22-2019 , 03:07 PM

#16

ScotchOnDaRocks

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 7,200

Has the core of “geniuses” shifted away from flat calling the entire range from BB here? Surely we can count on a maniac to bet all flops. But I question the maniac assumption after OP edit that they never get out of line on the turn.

Quote

07-22-2019 , 04:01 PM

#17

OnTheRail15

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 4,339

I now threebet against all opens. I would almost exclusively flat KTo though.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote

07-22-2019 , 07:51 PM

#18

LifeRebooted

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 594

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScotchOnDaRocks

We can also count on a maniac betting or raising with worse even after we three-bet pre.

Quote

07-23-2019 , 02:10 PM

#19

ScotchOnDaRocks

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 7,200

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeRebooted

We can also count on a maniac betting or raising with worse even after we three-bet pre.

Forget this specific case against a supposed maniac that doesn’t get out of line ever on the turn. The general precept of being able to completely mask your range and get the same exact money in on the flop vs high continuation betting % is obviously compelling, which is why I asked

Quote

07-28-2019 , 08:48 PM

#20

DonJuan

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,540

If you 3b right you can always cbet 100%. kT is 3b 50%

Quote

07-29-2019 , 09:51 AM

#21

LifeRebooted

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 594

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScotchOnDaRocks

Against many maniacs, the benefits of flatting one's entire range are reduced and the costs are increased. In this specific case, and in many others, three-betting out of the BB is good against a maniac. I do not think the general wisdom of flatting out entire range HU in the BB has changed.

Quote

07-29-2019 , 10:59 AM

#22

stinkypete

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,783

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeRebooted

If they're the type to go 12 bets preflop with garbage you should be 3-betting a wide range to encourage it, but KTo is still a pretty ****ty hand to do it with

Quote

07-29-2019 , 03:22 PM

#23

LifeRebooted

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 594

Quote:

Originally Posted by stinkypete

If they're the type to go 12 bets preflop with garbage you should be 3-betting a wide range to encourage it, but KTo is still a pretty ****ty hand to do it with

Yeah, I actually don't care to 3! this specific hand all that much. I intended to endorse the general notion of three-betting HU in the BB against a maniac more than three-betting this specific hand. Been a while since I read OP when I made my last post.

Quote

07-30-2019 , 07:10 PM

#24

Smudger2408

banned

Join Date: Jun 2019 Posts: 1,922

You're beat. Not sure how you are beat, but you are beat.

Possible you can improve to win, possible you are drawing dead.

You are lighting money on fire by calling down. I would call down, but know my chance of winning with or without improvement is slim.

Think you played the hand well to that point, for what it's worth.

Sorry, editing original post. Didn't see third diamond. You might not be beat. Call down.