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Old 06-19-2021, 11:48 AM   #1
DonkFold
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20/40 33 in HJ

New to posting hands. Not sure about the proper short hand lingo in these posts.

8 handed
3s3d in the HJ
Preflop folds to me and I call
Button calls
SB calls BB checks option

Flop 399r

SB x
BB x
I bet
Button calls
SB fold
BB folds

Turn Kh

I bet
Button folds

Is this a hand I should have raised preflop? Is this a flop that I should have slow played? I feel like I missed out on bets.

Also just learning about solvers. Is PioSolver something that can be used for Limit Holdem hand analysis?

Thanks.
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Old 06-19-2021, 01:34 PM   #2
ninefingershuffle
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Re: 20/40 33 in HJ

You should have zero open limps in late position (or potentially any position). So it’s a raise or fold spot.
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Old 06-19-2021, 08:50 PM   #3
Unguarded
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Re: 20/40 33 in HJ

Definitely raise pre-flop. In fact, you should never open limp pre-flop at all. In LHE, stealing the blinds is a great result. Getting heads up with the big blind in position is also a great result.

You played it well post-flop. Slowplaying in LHE is almost always pretty terrible.

Solvers are great for advanced players, but they will likely just confuse people earlier on in the learning process.
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Old 06-20-2021, 01:52 AM   #4
DeathDonkey
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Re: 20/40 33 in HJ

Fold pre...
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Old 06-26-2021, 02:36 PM   #5
DonkFold
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Re: 20/40 33 in HJ

Thank you for the responses.
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Old 06-29-2021, 04:17 PM   #6
AKQJ10
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Re: 20/40 33 in HJ

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathDonkey View Post
Fold pre...
What should be the bottom of our PP range here against a generic 20/40 lineup? (Let's say a Commerce 20/40 lineup since it varies by geography.) I'll guess 55 or 66.
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Old 06-30-2021, 02:12 AM   #7
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Re: 20/40 33 in HJ

44
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Old 06-30-2021, 02:19 AM   #8
DeathDonkey
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Re: 20/40 33 in HJ

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Originally Posted by NVF View Post
44
Nod this is what the magic elves in my computer say too
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Old 07-02-2021, 12:33 AM   #9
bicyclekick
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Re: 20/40 33 in HJ

yeah except your solver is playing vs solver. i’m in for rfi
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Old 07-02-2021, 04:03 AM   #10
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Re: 20/40 33 in HJ

I agree. 22-33 have printed money in the HJ in the hands of good players since forever in online databases. And live 20/40 is baby soft.
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Old 07-02-2021, 09:56 PM   #11
NVF
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Re: 20/40 33 in HJ

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Originally Posted by Unguarded View Post
22-33 have printed money in the HJ in the hands of good players since forever in online databases
I would like to see that, and I would be eager to dismiss a detail like that as due to variance unless a sample size was well into the millions of hands. I would expect that if this were the case over a given sample, some weaker hands might be winning more in specific positions than stronger hands of the same type.

Also, a game being softer does not necessarily mean that the bottom of your opening range goes up in EV. It can actually mean that the bottom of your opening range, especially in earlier positions, goes down in EV while the middle and top of your range go up in EV more than enough to compensate. But this depends exactly in which ways the opposition is playing poorly. If 33 or 22 was winning in some games opening HJ online, it would be in those where cutoff and button folded too much to the open, assuming at least similar postflop skills. In my experience the opposite is true in over 1,000 hours of live 20-40. Even assuming postflop skill differences, low pocket pairs are easily the worst class of hands to try to raise EV over equilibrium by outplaying people.
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Old 07-02-2021, 10:13 PM   #12
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Re: 20/40 33 in HJ

Just as an aside, in equilibrium LJ mixes opens and folds with 44 and always opens 55. A good friend and I who have won a lot in our games have agreed that just always folding 44 is a good exploit in a soft game, not the reverse of opening it every time. It's bad for your hand if HJ plays too loose and 3-bets you with 55, for example. But if everyone just calls the open with disconnected offsuit garbage every time then it prints money of course.
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Old 07-03-2021, 03:20 PM   #13
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Re: 20/40 33 in HJ

In addition to NVF's excellent thoughts, I just fundamentally disagree with the idea that I should try to be smarter than the machine overlords. You never know in which way a bad player is going to err, you might think they never bluff but then in some spots they way way over bluff or bluff a hand that a solver would never bluff. Bad players are bad in random ways, rarely in consistent ways.
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