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01-24-2012 , 02:54 PM

mediaslut

centurion

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 115

new to table. appears to be relatively tight. 3 blinds chopped in past 2 orbits.

usually 2-3 to a flop, not too much raise.

In BB with 89c

EP raise, CO, button SB call. I call

flop: 9h9dKh

I bet, EPcall, CO raises, SB folds, I 3-bet, EP calls 2, CO calls

Turn: 3c. I bet, CO and EP Call

River: Qh. Checked around.

I win.

would love some thoughts here. probably a bit of debate on whether i should have bet/folded river.

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01-24-2012 , 03:01 PM

WackyPoker

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,440

Why no check raise on the flop?

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01-24-2012 , 03:18 PM

Bill Haywood

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 5,517

Quote:

Originally Posted by WackyPoker

Why no check raise on the flop?

Because when he bets out, people think it's a bluff, raise, then he 3! That gets more money in the pot than a CR.

Last edited by Bill Haywood; 01-24-2012 at 03:23 PM.

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01-24-2012 , 03:30 PM

LigLury

centurion

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 132

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Haywood

Because when he bets out, people think it's a bluff, raise, then he 3! That gets more money in the pot than a CR.

I kind of disagree with this. I think we can expect EP to bet 100% of his range here. Aside from picking up any stragglers, a c/r is more likely to tie people to their hands. It also looks a bit more bluffy in the games I play in. Because I might c/r with any K, any pp, or even AQ/AJ, I think I get more money in by c/r'ng my trips here. Just my opinion.

Last edited by LigLury; 01-24-2012 at 03:35 PM.

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01-24-2012 , 03:35 PM

LigLury

centurion

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 132

I prefer a c/r on flop.

Def bet river as the Q might have improved someone to a pair. It could also have made someone a better hand, but I'm pretty much never folding to a raise unless I know the player really well.

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01-24-2012 , 05:21 PM

Chasqui

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,749

Quote:

Originally Posted by mediaslut

River: Qh. Checked around. I win.

When you say I win, I imagine you aren't referring to the one or two big bets you lost on the river?

What range do you donk on that flop?

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01-24-2012 , 05:44 PM

mediaslut

centurion

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 115

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chasqui

When you say I win, I imagine you aren't referring to the one or two big bets you lost on the river?

What range do you donk on that flop?

sets and huge draws into that big of a field.

a bit wider range if it was 2 or 3 handed (gutshots, nut flush draws)

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01-24-2012 , 09:05 PM

Chasqui

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,749

Quote:

Originally Posted by mediaslut

sets and huge draws into that big of a field.

I was asking about specific hands you donk on this paired board with a K, against an EP raiser and a bunch of players.

Why do you think the donk is better than c/r?

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01-24-2012 , 11:38 PM

mediaslut

centurion

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 115

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chasqui

I was asking about specific hands you donk on this paired board with a K, against an EP raiser and a bunch of players.

Why do you think the donk is better than c/r?

Pretty much because I know I will get three bets in and more often than I think more dollars in the pot.

Not to concerned about trapping stragglers since I think you get folds from Anyone who completely whiffed on that flop (medium aces and small pairs are probably folding will multiple bets or calls). And if I get someone to fold a heart draw for 2 cold, it's definitely +ev.

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01-24-2012 , 11:39 PM

#10

private joker

Most Definitely

Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 25,244

Check-raise the flop, bet the river.

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01-24-2012 , 11:56 PM

#11

gaming_mouse

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 13,786

Quote:

Originally Posted by private joker

Check-raise the flop, bet the river.

this, and neither is really close

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01-25-2012 , 12:25 PM

#12

Blyleventhedude

stranger

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 3

Quote:

Originally Posted by mediaslut

I think you're wrong on just about every point there. How do you know you're getting 3 bets in? Your read on the table is that it's passive, and passive players aren't going to always raise with a king here and will slow down when you bet out (as EP clearly did).

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01-25-2012 , 02:06 PM

#13

...one...

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 435

k/r flop

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01-25-2012 , 02:40 PM

#14

AlanBostick

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 11,886

JFC, checkraise the flop. It looks no less like a bluff than donking -- in the games I play, villains will play the same with small-to-medium pocket pairs, not knowing themselves if their k/r is for value or a bluff.

(But, LigLury, we can't expect EP to bet 100% of their range here on the flop. I certainly don't bet 100% of my range when I raise EP, get two callers plus the blinds, and the flop comes twotone K99. Are you going to bet, say, suited AJ with no flush draw here? If so, are you bluffing or betting for value?)

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01-25-2012 , 06:39 PM

#15

COCOCHANEL

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 504

I do not like a c/r on the this flop against certain types of opponents. If I c/r on this flop in my regular 20 game--in which there are several decent players--and I have flopped trips, I might as well turn my cards face-up, and I am going to get 0 action. I bet out and hope for action most often, but it's important to mix up your play in this spot if you play a lot of the same opponents regularly, IMO. So I especially am taken aback by comments like "c/r and it's not even close." It is close, and hero got a lot of action by betting out.

I am questioning from these posts whether I am playing in a particularly tough game these days...

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01-25-2012 , 06:48 PM

#16

gaming_mouse

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 13,786

Quote:

Originally Posted by COCOCHANEL

well, i hope you are c/raising 100% when you have air

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01-25-2012 , 10:24 PM

#17

jesse9999

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 528

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaming_mouse

this, and neither is really close

agreed

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01-26-2012 , 01:27 AM

#18

AlanBostick

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 11,886

You don't mix up your play by donking 89o into a K99r board; you mix up your play by checkraising with it and also with hands like QJ, TJ, or QT.

If your opponents are folding to your checkraises on boards like this, they are giving you too much credit, and you should be exploiting the hell out of them by checkraising such boards a lot.

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01-29-2012 , 02:56 AM

#19

nonsimplesimon

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Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 10,134

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlanBostick

You don't mix up your play by donking 89o into a K99r board; you mix up your play by checkraising with it and also with hands like QJ, TJ, or QT.

This 1000%

This board had two hearts on it I'd be CRing my strong fd here as well.

If it checks through in these situations I don't get too upset about it because I know - for "balancing " reasons it was the right play and ill just get em the next time around. Although, however, if I am seeing a lack of cbetting from this particular opponent I will be tempted to donk. I'd have to have a real history with him though to have that observation.

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01-29-2012 , 03:07 AM

#20

nonsimplesimon

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Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 10,134

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Haywood

Because when YOU CR, people think it's a bluff, then he 3! AND YOU 4B, That gets more money in the pot than a DONK BET.

FYP yes? IOW, we are 4bing here right? Or would we just call his 3b (after cr'ing OTF) and go for the second CR ott?

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01-29-2012 , 04:32 PM

#21

MitchL

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 8,521

donking here is so awful.

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02-01-2012 , 06:57 PM

#22

rexcharger

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 555

seems to me this flop is going to be 3ways for 3bets either way.

the CO raised the donk and EP call as played.

if OP checks, we assume EP donks, why isnt CO raising this too?

if this occurs, are people suggesting a call instead of 3! ?

Last edited by rexcharger; 02-01-2012 at 06:58 PM. Reason: addition

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