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Old 03-25-2011, 05:33 PM   #1
lqvolleyball
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1/2 commerce hand

Utg +1- deuces cracked sweater kid
Co- hero
Button- action asian lady

Hero dealt QJ

Utg +1 open raises, hero 3 bets, button calls, utg calls

Flop 1083

Utg checks, hero bets, button folds, utg calls

Turn 5

Utg checks, hero bets, utg raises, hero 3-bets, utg 4-bets, hero calls

River K
Utg bets, hero calls

Did i play the turn poorly? Any other mistakes?
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Old 03-25-2011, 05:52 PM   #2
OnTheRail15
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Re: 1/2 commerce hand

Is this full ring? He really shouldn't have a bigger flush if it is. How does he see you? I need a bit more information about the hand.
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Old 03-25-2011, 06:08 PM   #3
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Re: 1/2 commerce hand

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Originally Posted by OnTheRail15 View Post
Is this full ring? He really shouldn't have a bigger flush if it is. How does he see you? I need a bit more information about the hand.
Yeah I mean his flop play seems to rule out bigger flushes, but his PF and turn play seem to rule out smaller flushes. [or, OTR, are you suggesting he's going to open 65hh FR but not A9hh?]

I would probably disregard the weird flop c/c and go on the fact that his open-raising range from UTG probably includes more Axhh hands than like 97hh and 65hh type hands.

Seems like you put in the appropriate amount of postflop action due to that.

BTW, if his EP-raising range full ring does indeed contain a paucity of small suited connectors, doesn't that make the PF 3-bet a bit too loose? Not sure about this (don't play 1/2, don't know what that crazy site DC is teaching these kids) but position and initiative have to buy you a lot of fold equity to make up for the fact that QJ is heavily dominated pretty often.

If this is like 5- or 6-handed then clearly not, but QJs 9-handed is usually a fold for me to an EP open from a TAGgish player.

Last edited by private joker; 03-25-2011 at 06:09 PM. Reason: esp if we have a steaming TC behind us who will cold-call 3
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Old 03-25-2011, 07:06 PM   #4
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Re: 1/2 commerce hand

55 the only hand that really makes a lot of sense.
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Old 03-25-2011, 07:44 PM   #5
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Re: 1/2 commerce hand

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Originally Posted by DpR View Post
55 the only hand that really makes a lot of sense.
Would you 4-bet red 55 on the turn in villain's shoes?
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Old 03-25-2011, 08:02 PM   #6
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Re: 1/2 commerce hand

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Originally Posted by private joker View Post
Would you 4-bet red 55 on the turn in villain's shoes?
I mean, it would depend on how I viewed hero, but my point is that he shouldn't have AKhh and obviously can't have AQhh, AJhh, AThh and I'm not sure if he'd open A9hh from ep in a full ring game in practice I'd usually just call down in hero's spot, but there are certainly villains I'd 5 bet against.
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Old 03-25-2011, 08:54 PM   #7
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Re: 1/2 commerce hand

Villain is me, and i view OP as a decent TAG. thats all the info im giving for now. Im also pretty sure you got the flop and turn mixed up. Flop is the T53 turn is 8

I think your best play here is raising a non-heart non-board pairing river.

Game was 9-handed.

Last edited by spino1i; 03-25-2011 at 09:15 PM.
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Old 03-25-2011, 09:10 PM   #8
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Re: 1/2 commerce hand

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Originally Posted by spino1i View Post
Im also pretty sure you got the flop and turn mixed up. Flop is the T53 turn is 8
Well this certainly changes things, as it adds 98hh, 87hh, 86hh, etc. into villain's range.

BTW, spinoli, if you flopped a flush or a set I don't know why you c/c the flop -- that seems pretty bad. And if you had 55, I don't know why you 4-bet the turn if you "view OP as a decent TAG."
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Old 03-25-2011, 09:56 PM   #9
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Re: 1/2 commerce hand

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Originally Posted by spino1i View Post

I think your best play here is raising a non-heart non-board pairing river.
do you mean calling the the check-raise and raising the river or calling the 4bet and raising the river?
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Old 03-25-2011, 09:59 PM   #10
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Re: 1/2 commerce hand

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Originally Posted by OnTheRail15 View Post
Is this full ring? He really shouldn't have a bigger flush if it is..
he's more likely to have the 65hh here than the A9hh ep in a full game? huh?
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Old 03-25-2011, 10:04 PM   #11
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Re: 1/2 commerce hand

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Originally Posted by Chris Daddy Cool View Post
he's more likely to have the 65hh here than the A9hh ep in a full game? huh?
No I think he might have 55 though. I guess I should have said he really shouldn't have a flush. That doesn't mean he doesn't of course.
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Old 03-25-2011, 10:33 PM   #12
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Re: 1/2 commerce hand

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Originally Posted by private joker View Post
Well this certainly changes things, as it adds 98hh, 87hh, 86hh, etc. into villain's range.

BTW, spinoli, if you flopped a flush or a set I don't know why you c/c the flop -- that seems pretty bad. And if you had 55, I don't know why you 4-bet the turn if you "view OP as a decent TAG."
i had 88 and turned a set. I 4-bet thinking villain was more likely to have overpairs than flushes in his range even after he 3-bet. Perhaps I was overvaluing my hand? That and I dont want to get FSD raised.
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Old 03-25-2011, 10:43 PM   #13
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Re: 1/2 commerce hand

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Originally Posted by private joker View Post
Would you 4-bet red 55 on the turn in villain's shoes?
For sure, and wouldn't really be thinking that is was that close of a play. I think the vast majority of 1/2 players would be 4 betting 55 there (or 88 if that is what makes the set). I'd be expecting the in position player to be three betting most overpairs with a heart.

Not saying its impossible, but I wouldn't really ever expect villain to have c/c'd the flop and checked the turn with a flush or set - that seems impossibly bad.
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Old 03-25-2011, 11:51 PM   #14
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Re: 1/2 commerce hand

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Originally Posted by DpR View Post
55 the only hand that really makes a lot of sense.
Agree completely.
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Old 03-26-2011, 04:51 AM   #15
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Re: 1/2 commerce hand

spino1i played fine imo, not 4 betting turn I think would be a little too weak for those stakes, but there are some bad / passive regs where it might be a spew (I don't know who OP is)
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Old 03-26-2011, 05:15 PM   #16
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Re: 1/2 commerce hand

One more raise on the river.
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Old 03-26-2011, 11:24 PM   #17
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Re: 1/2 commerce hand

Quote:
Utg +1- deuces cracked sweater kid
L
O
L
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Old 03-27-2011, 12:45 AM   #18
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Re: 1/2 commerce hand

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Originally Posted by sublime View Post
L
O
L
I mean as soon as I read it I knew it was spino

As to the hand if spino really is like 14 seats from the button you can probably put in one more raise cause he really really really shouldn't ever have a flush.

and congrats on continuing to run well
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Old 03-27-2011, 01:13 AM   #19
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Re: 1/2 commerce hand

4betting the set on the turn is standard in this spot.

as for the flush, there is a point on how many bets is too much. your hand maxes out between 5 and 6 big bets between the turn and river. any more than that you lose every time. sure, he shouldn't have a flush that often in this spot, but the risk/reward factor.... sometimes you just gotta call even though you think there's a good chance your hand is still good.

that said, i wouldn't fault you for raising the river.
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Old 03-27-2011, 01:18 AM   #20
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Re: 1/2 commerce hand

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Originally Posted by jesse8888 View Post
I mean as soon as I read it I knew it was spino

As to the hand if spino really is like 14 seats from the button you can probably put in one more raise cause he really really really shouldn't ever have a flush.

and congrats on continuing to run well
you in LA area still?
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Old 03-27-2011, 01:32 AM   #21
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Re: 1/2 commerce hand

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Originally Posted by sublime View Post
you in LA area still?
Yep.
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Old 03-27-2011, 01:40 AM   #22
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Re: 1/2 commerce hand

commerce much?
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Old 03-27-2011, 12:02 PM   #23
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Re: 1/2 commerce hand

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Originally Posted by sublime View Post
commerce much?
As little as possible, although since I can't win at HG I'm showing up more these days.
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Old 03-27-2011, 06:03 PM   #24
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Re: 1/2 commerce hand

I would check/call the nuts on the flop occasionally when the button folds if I'm villain.
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Old 03-27-2011, 08:10 PM   #25
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Re: 1/2 commerce hand

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Originally Posted by lolmitHE View Post
I would check/call the nuts on the flop occasionally when the button folds if I'm villain.
Of course but it's like exactly 1 combo AND then you have to decide to just check/call it. There are 3 sets of 8s he'd play this way 100% of the time
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