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Old 07-29-2010, 10:36 PM   #1
greatwhite
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How would you play these hands?

In all of the situations you are in the big blind, the cutoff opens, and the small blind cold calls. The small blind checks the flop and you're trapped with the cutoff to act. You can donk, check/raise, check/call, or check/fold. You can base whether you'd check/raise, check/fold, or check/call based on the small blinds action. However, the cutoff isn't guaranteed to bet on coordinated flops.

Hand 1: 43
Flop: Q73

Hand 2: J9
Flop: K98

Hand 3: 22
Flop: JT2

Hand 4: A2
Flop: Q92

Hand 5: A2
Flop: AJT

Hand 6: K9
Flop: Q98

Hand 7: 87
Flop: 984

Some of you might notice I posted this in the high stakes limit forum. However, I wasn't getting very many mature replies so I thought maybe I'd get more thoughtful answers in this one.
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Old 07-29-2010, 10:38 PM   #2
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Re: How would you play these hands?

My answers:
I'm folding all, but hand number 3 if the button bets/raises and the SB raises/3-bets him. Is that too tight? My lines would be:
1. C/R
2. C/C
3. Bet/3-Bet
4. I'm really lost on this one. I think C/C. Make the 2 a 9 and I think bet. The hand seems too weak for a C/R against a button, but I'm getting a good price. I don't think I'm folding too many hands by betting, but it may help me get a better understanding on where I stand. C/C will keep the pot smaller though. I see you guys think betting is better, why?
5. C/C
6. C/C
7. C/R
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Old 07-30-2010, 01:31 AM   #3
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Re: How would you play these hands?

1) c/r
2) c/c
3) c/f
4) c/c
5) c/c
6) c/r
7) c/r
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Old 07-30-2010, 09:14 AM   #4
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Re: How would you play these hands?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scary_Tiger View Post
1) c/r
2) c/c
3) c/f
4) c/c
5) c/c
6) c/r
7) c/r
Why?
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Old 07-30-2010, 01:04 PM   #5
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Re: How would you play these hands?

Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite View Post
Why?
He must have missread the board. Bet-3B is the way to go, imo.
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Old 07-30-2010, 08:44 PM   #6
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Re: How would you play these hands?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verde View Post
He must have missread the board. Bet-3B is the way to go, imo.
I didn't misread it, we're drawing near dead versus higher sets and don't have much equity versus flushes either. Chasing is not the way to win the monies in LHE.
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Old 07-30-2010, 09:18 PM   #7
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Re: How would you play these hands?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scary_Tiger View Post
I didn't misread it, we're drawing near dead versus higher sets and don't have much equity versus flushes either. Chasing is not the way to win the monies in LHE.
Then how are you drawing in hand 2 which you advocate check/call?
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Old 07-30-2010, 11:28 PM   #8
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Re: How would you play these hands?

Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite View Post
Then how are you drawing in hand 2 which you advocate check/call?
You can't just assume your opponent has a flush, in hand 2 we quite likely have the best hand now, and our equity goes way up on a brick turn.
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Old 07-31-2010, 02:57 AM   #9
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Re: How would you play these hands?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scary_Tiger View Post
1) c/r
2) c/c
3) c/f
4) c/c
5) c/c
6) c/r
7) c/r
perfect
/thread
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Old 07-31-2010, 03:30 AM   #10
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Re: How would you play these hands?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scary_Tiger View Post
I didn't misread it, we're drawing near dead versus higher sets and don't have much equity versus flushes either. Chasing is not the way to win the monies in LHE.
Maybe the hand isn't as good as I first thought.

And sure against sets & flushes bottom set performs poorly. But ranges are wide to begin with and they will call and raise with less. I think many players will try to get a freecard somewhere with their pair plus draw. So facing a raise is ok.
Don't want to give a freecard to a single spade or straight draw and CO might raise and force out SB when he got a low spade.
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Old 07-31-2010, 10:14 AM   #11
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Re: How would you play these hands?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scary_Tiger View Post
You can't just assume your opponent has a flush, in hand 2 we quite likely have the best hand now, and our equity goes way up on a brick turn.
In hand 3 you have a set of 2's. Unless the opponent has pocket jacks or tens you're in pretty good shape. You're drawing near dead in hand 2 against sets and there's another set combo that the cutoff can have. You're also drawing even more dead against a flush and that's more likely than a set. Hand 3 seems to be contradicting hand 2.

Hand 2: Behind top pair and better jacks, drawing close to dead to sets, drawing near dead to a flush
Hand 3: Behind flushes and drawing near dead to sets while ahead of every other holding.

In hand 3 you're behind less and drawing near dead to less hands.

Last edited by greatwhite; 07-31-2010 at 10:22 AM.
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Old 08-01-2010, 02:46 PM   #12
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Re: How would you play these hands?

Hand 3

If we check and someone bets, I guesstimate it is 50% they either have, or will fill to, a flush.

We fill up nearly 40%. Check my reasoning, doesn't that mean we lose to a flush 40% of time? Wouldn't 60% equity vs. flushes be enough to make up for bigger boats?

Certainly couldn't we c/c for 1 bet?

Last edited by Bill Haywood; 08-01-2010 at 02:53 PM.
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Old 08-03-2010, 07:54 PM   #13
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Re: How would you play these hands?

C/f'ing hand 3 is awful. If you say cf you may as well save yourself an other sn and fold pf
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Old 08-04-2010, 07:38 AM   #14
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Re: How would you play these hands?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZOMG_RIGGED! View Post
C/f'ing hand 3 is awful. If you say cf you may as well save yourself an other sn and fold pf
thank god, i reread this thread a few times and didn't believe this.
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Old 08-04-2010, 08:31 AM   #15
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Re: How would you play these hands?

its clearly a fold pf and this hand is the perfect example why. even if you do flop your set you have to just c/f the flop so often its not worth it. Better off just folding pf. i guess if you're really feeling ballsy you can ch/c the flop to see if you can hit your quads so you can get a ton of bets out of his fullhouse but you probably dont have the odds to draw to one out. fold pf. next hand
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Old 08-04-2010, 01:15 PM   #16
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Re: How would you play these hands?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZOMG_RIGGED! View Post
its clearly a fold pf and this hand is the perfect example why. even if you do flop your set you have to just c/f the flop so often its not worth it. Better off just folding pf. i guess if you're really feeling ballsy you can ch/c the flop to see if you can hit your quads so you can get a ton of bets out of his fullhouse but you probably dont have the odds to draw to one out. fold pf. next hand
Yeah, but OP asked how to play the hands after he called out of the big blind. Just because we already made a mistake in the hand doesn't mean we should further exacerbate it by doing anything besides check folding.
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Old 08-04-2010, 09:52 PM   #17
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Re: How would you play these hands?

I feel obligated to help once i feel someone is ****ing the dog
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Old 08-05-2010, 03:25 AM   #18
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Re: How would you play these hands?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZOMG_RIGGED! View Post
I feel obligated to help once i feel someone is ****ing the dog
Don't get it, how did you help exactly and who is doing what to the dog?

Fold pf? Sure that's best, but it wasn't the question.

First you say folding the flop is awful, then you say one could ch/c hoping to spike quads.
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Old 08-05-2010, 03:38 AM   #19
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Re: How would you play these hands?

****ing the dog: your best calls you on the phone and. Says "dude I'm on trouble. My roommate came home early and caught me naked, lubed up and ****ing the dog. What do I do?"

Answer: don't **** the dog

You never would gave gotten into thus mess and wasted a sb if you would have just not ****ed the dog pf
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Old 06-03-2011, 12:54 AM   #20
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Re: How would you play these hands?

Words of wisdom ITT
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Old 06-05-2011, 12:42 AM   #21
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Re: How would you play these hands?

mad levels itt
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Old 06-12-2011, 06:10 AM   #22
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Re: How would you play these hands?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scary_Tiger View Post
I didn't misread it, we're drawing near dead versus higher sets and don't have much equity versus flushes either. Chasing is not the way to win the monies in LHE.
I don't get it.We surely have 60-65% equity on flop against their preflop ranges.And we can't be dropping so much equity against buttons flop betting range that we are going to check/fold flop.
Can you give us ranges which supports a check/fold on flop?

I'm no pokerguru and have no own opinion about what is the proper play but every preflop chart I've seen has included calling BB with 22 for one bet in 3-handed pots so I'm quite surprised to see that 22 suddenly has become an easy fold preflop against 1 player with a 30-35% range and against someone bad enough to coldcall from SB.

And if I'm not totally mistaken I've seen high stakes videos advocating calling any pair against a button raise and a small blind3bet
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Old 06-15-2011, 05:40 AM   #23
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Re: How would you play these hands?

i thought this is a nice op exercise to help beginners see and perhaps understand not to donk bet as every answer begins with a check.

as for the 22 thing, u have equity if they are drawing to a flush u are drawing to a fh but u already have a set lulz. (reasoning without stove cause its just easier that way )
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Old 06-23-2011, 04:56 PM   #24
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Re: How would you play these hands?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZOMG_RIGGED! View Post
its clearly a fold pf and this hand is the perfect example why. even if you do flop your set you have to just c/f the flop so often its not worth it. Better off just folding pf. i guess if you're really feeling ballsy you can ch/c the flop to see if you can hit your quads so you can get a ton of bets out of his fullhouse but you probably dont have the odds to draw to one out. fold pf. next hand
I don't see why we have to c/f a lot of flops when we make a small set. Honestly, I can't think of a board other than a monotone one that I would consider check-folding bottom set in shorthanded limit holdem.

Lets say its a two tone board, JT2. Why would we want to fold that? There are plenty of hands we are ahead of that will want to go to showdown.
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Old 06-25-2011, 01:21 AM   #25
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Re: How would you play these hands?

Not that anyone reads this stuff anymore, but hand 3 is a massive level, right? We're check-folding a set vs. CO and SB? Really?
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