I have been playing only few orbits, and i have never played either mickelsson2 or D0P before but both seem kind donkish.

€5/€10 Limit Holdem
Prima
5 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG Hero ($171.73)
CO CES ($381.38)
BTN MRWeingro ($257.14)
SB mickelsson2 ($497.78)
BB D0P ($249.35)

Pre-Flop: (1.5 SB, 5 players) Hero is UTG 10 10
Hero raises, 1 fold, MRWeingro 3-bets, mickelsson2 4-bets, D0P calls, Hero calls, MRWeingro calls

Flop: 5 9 4 (16.0 SB, 4 players)
mickelsson2 bets, D0P raises Hero does what?

i would start with 3betting then see how the action develops

3bet it

If 'kind donkish' means capping / coldcalling caps with QJo, 84s etc (and then iso raising this flop) then super easy 3bet.

If they have "normal" ranges you should always be drawing to 2 outs.

I would have capped the flop. The bottom could very easilly be making a position player and if he is a donkish player, he probably didn't pay attention to the fact that you raised UTG and you are a head the BB range 99% of the time.
On the flop, you are behind to 9 combOs of sets and the unlikely overpaid. I would 3 bet the flop and proceed with cuation if you get capped.

Thread derailing inc


thats a vagina

Basically 2 people have to be overplaying their hand in order for your equity to be in that realm where you can begin to consider aggressing the flop in this spot.

i see the logical in 3 betting in such a big pot to try to protect your hand as much as possible even if your equity isn't stellar. but i think your equity is a lot less than stellar, i am hating life as i cold call two here. the only real hands you beat from D0P is AhKh maybe AhQh AhJh any combos of hearts that are lower he probably shouldn't raise because he does better off calling and trying to keep as many in as possible. The other players have to have pretty solid ranges as well.

does not compute. Snap 3 bet this **** and bet it down until one of them tells you you're beat. Then call him down to make him prove it

yes

This is way closer to a fold than a 3-bet. If you are going to continue with the hand you should coldcall. You don't have an equity edge and you have zero f/e. If you are 3-betting to fold overcards then you end up folding a hand that pads your equity.

no ***** way. the reason this pot is worth continuing in is because it's so big. because of that, a 3bet is totally 100% mandatory. Coldcalling would be unspeakably bad


edit: but i don't think folding is that bad at all

Boc,

Let's take MrWeingro. Let's assume he has AQ. Let's say he will fold if we 3-bet or call if we coldcall. Should we 3-bet or coldcall?

lol Spy Dog

I dunno if you're about to own me with some Pokerstove or something, but it sure seems like big pot rules say we should 3bet for sure, and it's not close.

-Boc

saying that folding is better than calling two and 3 betting is best of all by invoking 'the pot is big' is a contradiction imo. Unless you are trying to just bluff with this 3bet, which i don't think is advisable.


also i think these players ranges are probably pretty solid. I think some players seem to be interpretting "seem donkish" the way i would interpret "seem like brain dead maniacs"

Tyler,

You realize it's a 3 way pot right? The 3bet is with the hopes of folding out a hand with significant equity vs us like Spy Dog's hypothetical AQ. It's a big pot, and because big pots are worth investing extra bets to ensure winning, I think 3betting is far better than just calling 2 here.

But whatever, this has to be a fold. You're banking on both of these guys playing pretty ***** spew-ily to consider continuing.

-boc

maybe so. what i am contending is if that is true (3bet is best) then you have sufficient equity to cold call, thus making folding worse than cold calling.

but yea i still like cold calling best because they 'seem donkish' and the pot is huge.

I would probably 3bet here and give it up if i got any further resistance.

This seems very player dependant, and you have no reads, eeeeks.

3-betting this is a trainwreck because FD and AA/KK both cap. You gain zero information. Plus it's an epic spew because you should be folding if any heart comes on the turn/river. Or any ace, or king... Or you should just fold on the flop

Oh btw even if this was heads up AhKh is 53% favorite against you, lol. So you're behind even in an ideal scenario of one having heart draw and other having AQ, miracuously. You'll still lose more than half the time, so gj whoever said 3bet it

It's actually 4-way.

hmmm, i've read the hand wrong the whole time. I'm on board for 3betting now. I still believe just calling to be awful. Folding is still an option I guess, but I think 3betting is best.

I ended up cold-calling the flop, which i dont think is really that bad?

Turn was I think 6
bet, call, call
River K
bet, call

Can I fold getting 16:1?

If you're going to cc the flop , please raise the turn once it becomes obv you have mick beat. As played you just let him draw to his AK for cheap

Im confused what ur getting at.... You seem to be advocating a coldcall, but then give an example scenario where it's a no brainer 3-bet.

Even if one guy has AK/A9 and other has AQ, it's still way more valuable to knock the 3 outs of AQ out than keep him in.
The question is not is it more profitable to keep AQ in (the answer is obviously we want him out), but just how poor our equity really is to justify the cost to improve our equity.

In my opinion I like a cold call for a totally different reason even if protection is very caluable.

a) I find people dont always fold AQ/AK here even taking a few bets to the face. This is a disaster for us.

b) We still will have people jamming the pot with flush draws and we wont know where we stand in a bigger pot.

I prefer a coldcall, planning to raise a variety of turns checking the river.

If the flop gets 3-bet AND 4-bet, your ****ed and can fold.
If the turn is a QKA you can fold.
If the turn is low heart, you can fold if you think you have no chance of getting someone behind you to laydown QQ/JJ, or raise.

Any other card you raise.

The great thing about the cold call, is you are able to rep a wider range on the turn than any other player. Almost everyone else can really only rep an overpair, but on the turn you can rep just about any card to improve you to 2pair+.
Which freezes the action when you raise (or at least it should)

DOES ANYBODY REALIZE THAT WE HAVE 3 OPPONENTS ON THIS FLOP AND NONE OF THEM HAS MISSED A CHANCE TO RAISE?