im not denying that...but its not really a big deal at all. and there are SOOO many better things to complain about in regards to UB and AP than this tripe.

Oh, you mean, if a player took advantage of every deposit bonus promotion (during a single month) to the max, they would have at least $3,000 in bonus money by the end of the month. Right?

Did you even read this very thread? In particular, my very first post. ??

correct.

not that it matters. its hard to clear more than a few hundred of it per month. my only point that ive reiterated several times is that no one will have to play without any bonuses...so it really wont effect anyone.

nope, i didnt

Not only is Cereus staff unethical, they're ******ed. Why have players constantly withdrawing and depositing to get more bonus. Which will only be amplified with expiring bonuses. They must rack up tremendous amount of unnecessary fees from ewallets and CC.

I can see you're tired of it by your confrontational tone. Just like a lot of people are pissed off that a site can do nothing but **** up and still climb the Pokerscout rankings. Oh well, I guess we'll all have to live with one another.

Your point earlier about me not playing on UB, therefore not knowing what goes on there, is quite interesting in light of your posts ITT. I read these forums constantly and am quite aware of what goes on there (and I used to play there, so I'm well aware of the constant reloads), and I also like to think I have the ability to see things from other people's perspectives, something you aren't displaying ITT.

Sure, for lots of people, no big deal. Reload. Have you considered others who might not be quite so balla as you to blow off $25 like that? Or worse, who can't reload easily or at all? What about the $0.50/$1 microlimit player who has his entire bankroll of $500 on the site as he slowly worked off his bonus?

I seriously (pun skipped) can't understand your need to argue this point with everyone. People deposited their money on Cereus on the understanding that they were being given a bonus that didn't expire. Cereus has decided to renege on this agreement. Now people are inconvenienced, and if they want to restore their bonus, they need to redeposit money they may or may not have, and pay money to do so. And they have a long long history of pulling this kind of ****. They used to do it when I played there a couple of years ago, which is why I stopped playing there, before the cheating scandal. They just finished changing the rakeback deductions, and totally ****ed that up too! They said they would do it one way, did it an entirely different way, without letting their players or even their affiliates know. Surprise! We're deducting more than we said we would! Sorr...oh wait, we're not the least bit sorry.

But that's part of the reason people think this is a big deal. They've done it yet again. They keep doing it. And each time, people get more pissed off. It really shouldn't be that surprising.

fine. im wrong, youre right, you win.

LOL, am I being that bad? We'll agree to disagree, and let's leave it at that. And no, I'm really not trying to get in the last word - feel free to have it if you want.

Hi

BTW the reason why I put in this message was the reason that they are not counting the antes as contribution to the pot anymore. I think that is the real "stealing money" issue here. I lose around $500 (per month) because of that.

Cheers
Klaus

You deserve it. Well played cereus.

some people were receiving near 100% RB and winning the points races b/c they were playing some ante game and getting sick amount of points. this makes it more fair

Who cares if some people get 100% rakeback? If they state on their webpage that you get points for contributing to the pot and then changing that rule without noticing the players is screwing people!

Comments like "You deserve it" are stupid and I hope that this stuff doesn't happen to the writers of these dumb comments.

I also don't understand this fairness issue. Is getting points for being dealt in a hand without contributing to the pot fair?

i think they retro on my mgr too
i filter with put money in the pot. and HEM show $888 rake paid
but my rtr rake status only show $480.
so i think when they decided antes don't count. they go back all the way from 1st of the month. and actually deduct it off my MGR.

ultimatebet screwed me out of all my bonus bucks, been playing there for 8 years, had 750 bonus dollars at different times, this past week they decieded to put 90 day limit on yheir use--- i'm looking for another place to play----mesiah

jesus wept

The guy in the post below points out how incompetent UB/AP are with their RAI$E promo and that they were screwing their customers again and he gets flamed. Now some of the same flamers cry about something that was obviously going to happen.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...-again-509277/

To me it's not a big deal for the reasons previously posted (frequent reloads). However, I could see how it could be for some. It is definitely a bad business practice to retroactively change anything. But, there is absolutely no reason why anyone who plays on cereus should be surprised in the least.

Yeah, here's what I dealt with from them Enjoy the unedited chat log, and note the poster's increasing disillusionment/rage:

Martin: Thank you for contacting our Support Department, this is Martin, how may I help you?
you: Hi there. I'm wondering what happend to my bonus dollars. I had about 400.
Martin: Can you please provide us with the registered email address?
you: Should be ******@****.***
Martin: one minute please
you: Sure thing sir.
Martin: I'm sorry for the delay. I'll be right with you.
you: No problem
you: These things happen
Martin: According to our terms and conditions, bonus dollars expire 90 days after they were credited. For this reason, we have removed 472.91 BDs from your account since they exceeded this period of time.
you: Ah. When did this change?
you: Because those bonus dollars were sitting for much longer than 90 days.
Martin: We have made very few changes to our terms and conditions over the years, but from time to time business considerations require that we review our promotions and make change.
you: Hmm... well, I'm most disappointed, and will certainly not be reloading in the event that I am denied those 472.91 dollars.
you: It's one of the reasons that I reccommend UB to my fellow live players: That bonus dollars do not expire.
Martin: Please keep in mind that at UltimateBet you can release your bonus dollars in a very easy way. Unlike many other sites, we offer credit towards releasing pending bonus funds for tournament play, especially since many of our players prefer this type of action so this is an advantage our players have.
you: Yes. I play limit cash games primarily, however.
you: And having to pay 30 cents in fees, which amounts to putting 3.30 at risk, to release two points, when 100 is required to release 5 dollars, means that I have to put at least $165 at risk to release five dollars.
you: So, though your temporary, graduated vig discount of one-third is appreciated, it is by no means my preferred method.
you: Further, it is tangental to the fact that when I received those bonus dollars, bonuses were perpetual.
you: At best.
Martin: releasing bonuses may appear to be difficult, once you distinguish between the different tables, SnGs and tournaments that award points faster, bonuses can actually be released in the specified period without any trouble.
you: Again, that's not relevant to the concern I came to you with Martin, though it is helpful advice for the future. I structured my play around a perpetual bonus which has been rescinded. That does not strike me as perpetual.
you: That strikes me as something I'll be posting to twoplustwo.com
Martin: unfortunately, the bonus money cannot be credited back to the account.
you: Not that you shouldn't feel free to change the rules going forward, but rather you're failing to honour your past committments.
Martin: these are new rules and there were applied to all of the customers
you: And why can't that be done, may I ask? Is it beyond the ken of your programming staff? I'm aware that they can do some imressive things.
Martin: that wouldn't be fair for the other players that were also affected by the change
you: At any rate. I should like to be credited my bonus money, as UB offered me a perpetual bonus.
you: And they should honour it.
you: What would be fair for the other players is that the money offered should be credited again. Any new bonuses could easily be set to expire within 90 days.
Martin: according to our user agreement, We reserve the right to cancel, change or substitute the rewards or the Program at any time with or without notice. Required point levels to redeem rewards are subject to change with or without notice.
you: Of course. So all terms and conditions apply until you decide that they do not, essentially.
you: When I went to the cashier page and saw my bonus money sitting there, it did not have an expiry date attached to it. I was, thus, under the reasonable impression that nothing had changed.
you: One other question: Is a player who wins their way into the WSOP via your steps tournament required to wear Ultimate Bet merch at the table?
Martin: no
you: Well, thank you for answering my questions to the best of your ability Martin. I hope your room enjoys its continuing bad publicity, which, I imagine is little fault of yours.
you: Enjoy your ensuing e-famy

^^lol at how the thread died after this comment.

I gave them a second chance after the scandals.

This is BS I am outta there. I lost 1K in bonus money.

The stud ring games are dead now anyway, all the regs are gone.

My rakeback no longer works either, and no FRs from raketherake for last 2 months.

I notice some regs have re-registered with new IDs.

Absolute crap, Ultimate BS. After four years sticking with you through the horror, you finally managed to lose this customer.

Idiots.

So this is definite? An ante no longer counts as a Contribution?

how did you lost your rakeback, how did they kill it?
mulit-account?

I dont know why it stopped. No I dont have multiple accounts. What a dumb question.

I lost $16,200 bonus money and the support is not a bit helpful and dont care the fair thing to do would be on all future reloads they expire after 90 days just blatent theft to me. I will never play there again.

Just discovering this travesty for myself... Completely ridiculous that they are STILL stealing from players after their scandals. I'm truly at a loss for words.

To the people saying this is no big deal since there are plenty of reloads, consider this:

I got $1000 bonus dollars by depositing 5x as much in their usual 20% reloads. That means I deposited $5000. When you deposit on this cheap ass network, they deduct the fees from your rakeback. In the case of Americans, those fees are actually quite hefty, over 8% in my case. So in effect I paid over $400 for these 1k bonus dollars that were never supposed to expire and now they've been stolen from me. If I want to get them back, I will have to pay another $400+.

Nothing short of criminal behavior if you ask me.

lol. This is a ****ing gem from that chatlog.