** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD ** - Page 846 - Computer Technical Help

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346 646 746 796 826 836 841 842 843 844 845 846 847 848 849 850 851 856 866 896 946 1046 1346

Last

12-03-2015 , 12:51 PM

#21126

daveT

S.A.G.E. Master

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 23,955

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjshabado

I'm not sure the effort required for maintaining one true framework is less than the effort required to build lots of more ideological frameworks.

I agree with this as well. I'm not sure either, but that whole thing about not reinventing wheels...

Quote

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12-03-2015 , 01:08 PM

#21127

blackize5

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 1,358

Collaboration is hard. It gets harder along with the size of the group. And with no initial hierarchy or forced grouping it's tough to get a group going in the first place.

Given that it makes sense to see a bunch of lone wolves developing frameworks

Quote

12-03-2015 , 01:19 PM

#21128

suzzer99

Save the Cheerleader, Save the World

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 101,163

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackize5

Most programmers IME make terrible decisions regarding user experience - even if their users are other programmers trying to create features within a framework.

There's usually 1 or 2 simple crystalline paths and a ton of crufty paths that lead to bloat when adding new components to the framework. Most programmers don't seem to have the requisite patience to refine refine refine, then refine some more to get to that simple building block state. They're not ruthless/OCD/perfectionist enough.

That kind of thing has got to be a one or two-person show imo. At least until the core of the framework is completely fleshed out.

Quote

12-03-2015 , 02:59 PM

#21129

Grue

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 5,667

My google foo is weak I guess but is there a way to do the equivalent of

Code:

let socket = require('socket.io-client')();

on one line with es6 modules? Because

Code:

import socket() from 'socket.io-client';

sure as hell doesn't work.

Quote

12-03-2015 , 03:33 PM

#21130

Fubster

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 8,871

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfram

Javascript is the native scripting language of the browser (by convention). You can open a file with js code (embedded in html) in a browser and it will run without any other engine or middleware. This makes it unique, and is why its so ubiquitous in web dev.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisV

Web languages have to be safe to execute (i.e. not able to modify the file system or whatever, also scripting languages so the code can be checked) and very widely supported. For historical reasons that means JavaScript.

okay, that makes sense, thanks. for some reason i thought there were more languages natively supported by browsers but i was probably just confused.

Quote

12-03-2015 , 03:45 PM

#21131

candybar

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 4,375

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveT

What is being done in JavaScript land is more like taking C++, then well let's create C+++ by abstracting away some features we think is ugly and calling something else, then well forget that one, let's create C+++(A) and call it a "functional" implementation of C++, but no, we don't like that either, let's make it look like Python with brackets and call this one C+++++++. Nope, forget it, let's try something that looks like Ruby and create Crub.

But this is not what's happening. Angular 1 is completely different from what came before. GWT is completely different from what came before. WebAssembly is a whole new language/runtime. Polymer is based on a whole new technology. Angular 2 is based on exsting technologies, but exactly in the opposite direction than what you claim - they worked with the creator of Durandal to create a single framework that fits the needs of both communities and visions (though he has since left), worked with Microsoft to use TypeScript without forking it by contributing their changes and worked with Web Components standard to ensure interoperability.

Quote:

The other major difference is that the languages listed all were created over many years, not created in someone's bedroom over a weekend. They aren't just mere abstraction layers over C, JVM, LLVM, or whatever. They took incredible effort and thought, which explains their staying power.

You think Angular 1/2, WebAssebmly, GWT and Polymer were created in someone's bedroom over a weekend? Those things are way more complicated than early Ruby, Python or PHP.

Quote:

And yes, I get that everyone doesn't agree on the "right" way to do things, but it seems highly unlikely that every single JS framework is significantly unique from each other, which is what I mean by working together instead of making minor syntactic changes on a fork and calling it new.

Who's making minor syntactic changes and calling it new?

Quote:

it seems highly unlikely that every single JS framework is significantly unique from each other

GWT and WebAssembly aren't even JS frameworks. And it's a weird standard anyway. Why do we have like 10+ TV manufacturers and hundreds of models? Do you ever go to Home Depot? Why on earth do we need hundreds of different kinds of faucets? And a billion different nut/bolt/screw types?

Quote

12-03-2015 , 04:56 PM

#21132

just_grindin

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 5,263

Quote:

Originally Posted by candybar

And a billion different nut/bolt/screw types?

Not the point of your post but yea waaaaay too many of these. It's ridiculous.

Quote

12-03-2015 , 05:46 PM

#21133

ChrisV

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 40,336

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fubster

okay, that makes sense, thanks. for some reason i thought there were more languages natively supported by browsers but i was probably just confused.

There are, but not universally.

Back in the dark ages when I first worked in web dev and Internet Explorer had huge market share, it supported VBScript as well. I'd occasionally see scripts written in that, but there was no advantage to doing that rather than JS for the most part. God knows if IE still supports it.

Quote

12-03-2015 , 05:50 PM

#21134

ChrisV

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 40,336

One reason for the confusion about JS frameworks is that they kind of run the gamut from whole new ways of programming applications (Angular 1/2) down to just particular implementations of ideas (one of the many implementations of a Flux dispatcher for instance). The latter get called "frameworks" but they are really just third party libraries.

Quote

12-03-2015 , 07:05 PM

#21135

muttiah

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 25,375

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Brice

Has the Rails job market kind of dried up? I was thinking about starting to learn it but it looks like the major city (DC) I am planning to move into in a few years does not have many job listings.

Maybe I should stick with Java.

Rails is not dried up. It's just that most jobs require senior engineers to work on old legacy huge rails apps. Rails is not going anywhere

Quote

12-03-2015 , 08:41 PM

#21136

daveT

S.A.G.E. Master

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 23,955

Quote:

Originally Posted by candybar

You think Angular 1/2, WebAssebmly, GWT and Polymer were created in someone's bedroom over a weekend? Those things are way more complicated than early Ruby, Python or PHP/

Did not make this claim, but I am claiming that the vast majority of JS frameworks are little more than a JS interpreter written in JS, and people who take them up are pound foolish to try them out at day zero, and this is what I don't understand.

Of course, you should probably stick with frameworks that have history and strong financial backing.

I guess part of my disbelief is how much I personally struggle to deal with various SPAs, glaze over at slow-loading websites, and other stupid **** I see all the time. What I find super ironic is how many sites don't work on Linux at all.

Make a Jackson Pollack, but at least learn how to draw a face first.

Quote:

And a billion different nut/bolt/screw types?

We don't, actually.

Much of the story is patents. But probably more analogous to JS frameworks, it became very cheap to make screws in the early 1900s, and vendor lock-in wasn't created by Oracle.

http://mentalfloss.com/article/26929...t-types-screws

http://diy.stackexchange.com/questio...t-hex-star-etc

Quote

12-03-2015 , 09:59 PM

#21137

candybar

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 4,375

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveT

What frameworks are little more than a JS interpreter written in JS and who's using them? I know of exactly one client-side JS framework that's reached mainstream popularity and that's Angular. There are a bunch of libraries and a bunch of frameworks that more or less no one is using. What happens in a world where there are very few frameworks is that everyone rolls their own. What's going in the JavaScript world is that people are sharing the basis for their apps in a way that perhaps didn't happen so much in the 90's. Why is that so bad? What thriving ecosystem doesn't have this problem of there being a bunch of different ways to do the same thing?

.NET is probably the closest thing to a popular platform where for a lot of tasks, there's one true library/framework for it, but even that's less and less true and it was widely regarded as a bad thing.

Quote

12-03-2015 , 10:48 PM

#21138

goofyballer

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 70,719

So, uh, weird professional question here.

Coworker posts a pull request for a huge thing he's been working on, has 2,500 new lines of code. I'm perusing through it and, in a C# file, randomly come across a comment at the end of a line:

Code:

private void OnLoad() {
    cell.onSelected -= HandleSelect; // i hate myself and want to die
    cell.onSelected += HandleSelect;

So, that's pretty ****ing dark. While to a certain extent I understand that we've all written code we felt dirty about and perhaps left some self-deprecating comments behind to shame ourselves for our misdeeds, that seems slightly overboard. The coworker in question has only been here a few months, is a little on the quiet side maybe, I don't know him very well. He's also not a native English speaker if that matters.

What do I do? Doing nothing seems reckless and broaching the topic with him directly seems super awkward, and he'd probably brush it off or something, and I may even be overreacting by thinking it's a big deal, I don't know. It's certainly a little bit of a creepy thing to have lurking in our code if anyone else ever comes across it too.

(and no, I don't know the purpose of the commented line, I guess it's a guard against subscribing to that event multiple times but that doesn't seem necessary given that method is only called on initialization)

Quote

12-03-2015 , 11:26 PM

#21139

Larry Legend

Celtic Pride

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 42,243

I would say you were reviewing it and saw this line [quoted line you showed us] and see what the person says?

99% of the time the person says, "haha oh sorry was frustrated something wasn't working for a while and it finally clicked."

1% of the time the person says something a little weird, which is where you say "Is everything cool?"

Quote

12-04-2015 , 02:26 AM

#21140

e i pi

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 2,230

Quote:

Originally Posted by goofyballer

He's also not a native English speaker if that matters

I think it does, especially if he's eastern european. It's a rough translation of fml.

If he's arab, call the FBI.

Quote

12-04-2015 , 05:22 AM

#21141

Wolfram

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 15,066

Since he's new and you haven't established any relationship with him I'd just ask him to change the comment to something a little more professional. 99.99% chance this is just a self-deprecated way to criticize some clunky code. For the 0.01% chance he has real issues, you don't know him at all and probably can't help and you have no way of knowing if any kind of personal intervention by you might make things worse.

Quote

12-04-2015 , 06:54 AM

#21142

plexiq

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 2,597

Ask him if he's a nirvana fan?

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/nirva...wanttodie.html

Quote

12-04-2015 , 07:59 AM

#21143

jjshabado

Carpal Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 22,732

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Legend

This.

I don't think you can ignore it but it also probably is just him writing something stupid.

Quote

12-04-2015 , 08:42 AM

#21144

Loki

binary duo

Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 12,772

Quote:

Originally Posted by plexiq

Ask him if he's a nirvana fan?

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/nirva...wanttodie.html

Damn you! Beat me to it

Is he mid to late 30s? Seems the appropriate age to have liked nirvana

Also, in this case I think this is what managers are for. Point it out to them and let them manage the situation.

Quote

12-04-2015 , 09:46 AM

#21145

candybar

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 4,375

Anyone have any experience with Cocos2d-x? Or similar cross-platform 2d mobile game engines? Trying to have some fun now with something completely different.

Quote

12-04-2015 , 06:13 PM

#21146

Barrin6

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 6,948

Some great trolling has been happening ever since Swift popped up on Github

Master-Slave
https://github.com/apple/swift/commi...mment-14795403

Changing license
https://github.com/apple/swift/pull/17

Quote

12-04-2015 , 06:19 PM

#21147

Barrin6

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 6,948

Darn Chris Lattner deleted his comment on the Master-Slave one.

omg it really did get merged

https://github.com/apple/swift/pull/165

That really makes Lattner's comment even more lol

Last edited by Barrin6; 12-04-2015 at 06:28 PM.

Quote

12-04-2015 , 07:36 PM

#21148

Larry Legend

Celtic Pride

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 42,243

I'm reading through some pull requests and they mostly seem like trolling or people just trying to change the dumbest thing to get their pull request into Swift.

That must be such a pita to have people just trying to get their code into the project.

Like that linux troll who always tries to send pull requests with terrible code in them.

Quote

12-04-2015 , 07:59 PM

#21149

gaming_mouse

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 13,786

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrin6

Darn Chris Lattner deleted his comment on the Master-Slave one.

omg it really did get merged

https://github.com/apple/swift/pull/165

That really makes Lattner's comment even more lol

Quote

12-04-2015 , 08:16 PM

#21150

daveT

S.A.G.E. Master

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 23,955

I grew up using "follower" as a derisive word, often describing a hopeless sap who evidently was unable to think for him or herself. This person was forever relegated to the hopeless masses, living a life of spiritual, mental, and financial poverty, probably looking at a bright future of drugs, alcoholism, and jail.

In fact, I don't think I ever heard or used "follower" in a positive connotation,