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** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD ** ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

10-26-2018 , 10:35 PM
I basically bombed every single interview at my current job and got hired anyway, i think you’re over thinking it. Have a drink, watch the WS, and forget about it
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10-26-2018 , 10:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmakin
I basically bombed every single interview at my current job and got hired anyway, i think you’re over thinking it. Have a drink, watch the Blizzcon Starcraft 2 tournament, and forget about it
Oh, I'm ****ing on it, and pizza on the way. Going to be passed the **** out by 10pm. I am tired, it's like the brain version of how your body hates you (but kind of in a good way) after running a marathon or whatever.
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10-26-2018 , 11:19 PM
worst case interview again in 6 months.
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10-26-2018 , 11:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
TWO of my six interviews had a min heap as the preferred data structure in the solution! Thank god I brushed up on that. If I do get an offer, that data structure could be the difference, lol.
I have a passing familiarity with all the major sort methods but the only one I focus on implementing is heapsort because it's so easy to explain and if put on the spot not too hard to implement.

It's a ****ed up industry as far as hiring goes, see my recent post about how my job wouldn't hire me if I applied today.
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10-26-2018 , 11:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmakin
I basically bombed every single interview at my current job and got hired anyway, i think you’re over thinking it. Have a drink, watch the WS, and forget about it
Jmakin, iirc many people (myself included) thought it sounded like your interview went very well.
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10-26-2018 , 11:46 PM
Well, the feedback from them was that I basically had very poor technical
Knowledge but that I thought and reasoned extremely quickly.

Curiously though, the interview I thought I really really bombed, the guy that did it told me this week that he gave me the strongest feedback he’s ever given to a candidate - but he also said he expected absolutely nothing from me because I had boat captain on my resume.

I didn’t know the answers to any questions they asked me and just tried to move the conversation along and explain what I thought I knew. I also couldn’t solve the second part of the take home they gave me.

After being involved in the interview process now I can see how I got hired anyway, lol.
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10-26-2018 , 11:51 PM
Just trying to say that I know the feeling extremely well and that he probably didn’t do nearly as bad as he thought he did.
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10-26-2018 , 11:52 PM
Goofy,

I wouldnt say anything and would let it ride.

This is based on my "theory of awkwardness in an interview in which by directly referencing an instance of awkwardness you are making it more likely they focus on that instance and not the other more successful parts of the interview".

But yea I'm sorry dude that does sound kinda ****ty but you are obviously very smart, talented, and passionate so I'm sure [99%ComperableMegaCo] is still available to you
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10-26-2018 , 11:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyBrooks
It's a ****ed up industry as far as hiring goes, see my recent post about how my job wouldn't hire me if I applied today.
Yeah, I had the biggest of eyerolls at that story. Do you work at a high-reputation company that can afford to be that selective? Or did the bosses just decide that this is what they had to do to hire the right people, despite it being plainly bone-headed?
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10-26-2018 , 11:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Legend
This is based on my "theory of awkwardness in an interview in which by directly referencing an instance of awkwardness you are making it more likely they focus on that instance and not the other more successful parts of the interview".
Mmm, yes, intriguing theory. I think both "it couldn't hurt" and "talking about awkward thing magnifies it" have their own arguments and merits.
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10-27-2018 , 12:04 AM
Oh, and while I still remember - one question I had I was thinking about, how much detail do I give the companies I'm talking to about where I'm at in other company's processes, before I have offers?

Like, if a company says "what's your timeline/who else are you talking to" and I have offers, I should obviously say "I have offers" (maybe name the company, maybe not, not sure). But I'm wondering if, say, I'm talking to this recruiter on Monday or talking to the people who just asked me to do an onsite - do I tell them "I just had an onsite at <desirable Bay Area mega-co>"? On one hand that makes me look more like an elite candidate to them, but on the other if a week later they say "oh what happened with <DBAM>" and I say "oh they didn't give me an offer", feels like that lowers my cred and my negotiating power.

A friend of mine was suggesting I should casually drop with the phone screen company "oh I have an onsite at <DBAM> tomorrow" (this was yesterday) and I was thinking that's not a good idea.
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10-27-2018 , 12:23 AM
having competing offers will help your recruiter get the hiring/compensation committee to approve a higher offer. without that, the HC just goes, meh, X00k should be enough for someone like goofy. get a credible DBAM offer in the mix and they re-evaluate their position. you don't need to neg your recruiter.
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10-27-2018 , 12:35 AM
So I’ve been at my new job a bit over three months now. Quite enjoying most aspects, but miss having a good dedicated test team and a strong devops team supporting me.

Someone from my last employer contacted me a couple days ago and asked if I would entertain coming back. I wasn’t sure what to say. I told them I would consider it but it would have to be a very very strong offer.

Anyone here ever been in a situation like this?
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10-27-2018 , 01:05 AM
I mean did you leave just because more money? If you weren't happy there I wouldn't go back unless the money was crazy high
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10-27-2018 , 01:40 AM
@goofy: If you think 4/5 isn't good enough to keep you in the running then I would definitely email the recruiter.

I would only expect 4/5 to not be good enough at a startup / very small company.
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10-27-2018 , 02:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
Interviewed at a <desirable Bay Area mega-co> today, and something interesting happened, curious what you guys would do about it.

They scheduled me for their typical interview panel, running until 3:30, consisting of 5 technical interviews with a lunch break. I was exceptionally nervous going into this, I tried to go to bed early last night but tossed and turned and slept like **** (on a night when I MOST need to have a good night's sleep, more than ever ), been studying for 1-2 weeks - having been like 4 years since my last coding interview (when I joined my current job), and that being the only interview I had done in the last six years before that, I was really anxious about how I'd perform.

Anyway, we start off, first interview goes pretty well - not a super complex problem, start with something simple, gets a little more complex, I think I handled it well. Second interview, similar pattern, I'm starting to feel like - okay - this is going well, I'm not an idiot/impostor, I got this.

After my 2nd interview, the 3rd interviewer doesn't show up. This being a large company and all, it's not like they all work with each other, they have nfi who my other interviewers are so it's not like my 2nd guy can go drop by 3rd guy's desk or something. So, 2nd guy steps up like a champ and says, well, if he's not here, let's start another problem. And he basically does my 3rd interview. The guy who was supposed to do that interview showed up halfway through, but given the timing and that my lunch break was coming up, they decided 2nd guy should just finish the 2nd problem we were working on together. We do that, I think I did pretty well.

Sometime around lunch, my interviewer and I both notice the room schedule now has me booked until 4:15. I'm like...whaaaat? I email the recruiter I'd been working with and ask if he knows why that happened, I suspect it was due to the snafu, but he doesn't respond.

I get back from lunch, do two more interviews, I feel pretty good about both of them, and having now done 5 sessions I feel really good about my performance on the day. But, my lack of sleep is starting to catch up, that 5th interview went well but I feel like I'm starting to run on fumes. It's 3:30. My day was supposed to be over.

(oh, fun fact: interviewer #5 was familiar with the products I work on now, and really liked them! very cool to meet someone like that, and prob good for his impression of me, as most people have never heard of us)

And then...the guy who was supposed to be interviewer #3 comes back.

So, I guess figuring that he missed his interview, The Powers That Be moved it to the end, maybe not knowing that I essentially did do that third interview anyway, just with the same guy as the second?

He asks me his question, it trips me up a bit, I'm not sure if I would have necessarily aced it if I did it 4 hours earlier but I'm positive I at least would have done better. I get to a workable solution to the problem, but with way more of him helping me out through the places I got stuck than is remotely ideal. All interviews obv have some degree of "hmm, this seems tricky, should I go this way or that way", and the interviewer pointing you in the right direction, but I got a little too stuck on some of the weeds of this problem and it was definitely my worst performance.

So, to be somewhat dramatic about it, this feels really unfair. They brought me in for 5 interviews and gave me 6, and the worst one came when I was most tired at the end of an exhausting, packed day. This is a great opportunity and I would feel absolutely gutted if this scheduling snafu I had no control over wound up costing me an offer. I may still get one, but like, if my day ended after interview #5 I feel like 90% I passed it, after interview #6...I have no idea.

So, question for you guys: would you bring this up as a concern? The impression I got from talking to the recruiter in the morning was that, most likely, the next time I talk with him will be next week, probably after they go through their hiring process and make a decision. Do you think it's worth mentioning in an email before they make that decision - hey, I did get the 5 interviews, and I felt really good about them until the 6th one came at the end of a tired day? I could word it better than that obv, but basically just let him know (because, again, this is a BigCo and I legitimately do not know how well they transmit information between each other, and if he even knows that I didn't spend the 3rd interview slot browsing the web on my phone), and to hopefully not let that extenuating circumstance (a 6th, exceptionally tired interview) sway the decision too much.

Obv having just gotten home and being utterly exhausted, I'm def over thinking this, so hoping some people with clearer heads can give me their thoughts.

In any case - I think doing as well as I did today, regardless of the outcome, boosted my confidence for other places I'm talking to and made me feel pretty good. I got an email today that I passed my phone screen yesterday for another co and they want to bring me in for onsites, and I'm talking with another recruiter on Monday from a friend's referral, so lots of promising stuff on the horizon.
My only comment is to study more than 2 weeks next time you do an interview at a bay area mega company. The stuff that happened is pretty common and will happen from time to time. Very few companies have seamless interview processes.
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10-27-2018 , 09:28 AM
Rusty, what are the ten schools? Do you really get enough applicants for this?
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10-27-2018 , 09:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
Yeah, I had the biggest of eyerolls at that story. Do you work at a high-reputation company that can afford to be that selective? Or did the bosses just decide that this is what they had to do to hire the right people, despite it being plainly bone-headed?
I think it's trying to fight a perception that we don't hire people who are "good enough" but honestly I'm not sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxtower
Rusty, what are the ten schools? Do you really get enough applicants for this?
I don't actually know which schools. I think it's more likely that it's not a set list and it just has to be justifiable to the CTO, i.e. a place that is well known for it's high quality CS programs like MIT, Carnegie Mellon, Stanford, UIUC etc.

No, I would not say we get enough applicants for this.
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10-27-2018 , 10:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
Fun anecdote from my interview: I have ~never used a min heap in my programming career, and had probably forgotten what the hell a min heap was after college, until I happened to brush up on them yesterday, in my final day of studying.

TWO of my six interviews had a min heap as the preferred data structure in the solution! Thank god I brushed up on that. If I do get an offer, that data structure could be the difference, lol.
This may be old news to you, but: if you can negate key values, you can use a min-heap to build a max-heap and vice versa. The only difference between a min and max heap is the comparison operator used for ordering.
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10-27-2018 , 02:58 PM
I wouldn't bring it up. It makes you sound like you are a whiner and that you might be difficult to work with. It also focuses on the fact that you did poorly on part of the interview when it might otherwise be overlooked.

If they come back and say that the 6th question was why you failed, then I would bring up that you were tired, that it wasn't really fair, etc.

The bottom line is that you nailed 5/6 interview questions. If that is not enough to get you hired, I'm sure studying another couple of weeks will get you over the hump at a similar company.
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10-27-2018 , 03:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
Oh, and while I still remember - one question I had I was thinking about, how much detail do I give the companies I'm talking to about where I'm at in other company's processes, before I have offers?

Like, if a company says "what's your timeline/who else are you talking to" and I have offers, I should obviously say "I have offers" (maybe name the company, maybe not, not sure). But I'm wondering if, say, I'm talking to this recruiter on Monday or talking to the people who just asked me to do an onsite - do I tell them "I just had an onsite at <desirable Bay Area mega-co>"? On one hand that makes me look more like an elite candidate to them, but on the other if a week later they say "oh what happened with <DBAM>" and I say "oh they didn't give me an offer", feels like that lowers my cred and my negotiating power.

A friend of mine was suggesting I should casually drop with the phone screen company "oh I have an onsite at <DBAM> tomorrow" (this was yesterday) and I was thinking that's not a good idea.
Just lie and tell them that everyone has given you an offer.
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10-27-2018 , 03:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Legend
Goofy,

I wouldnt say anything and would let it ride.

This is based on my "theory of awkwardness in an interview in which by directly referencing an instance of awkwardness you are making it more likely they focus on that instance and not the other more successful parts of the interview".
This. I also think that you should avoid bring up anything potentially negative in an interview, such as "Well, I live an hour from here, but with traffic it can be an hour and a half"... that stuff never helps you. They are asking how far you live for this very reason.
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10-27-2018 , 06:05 PM
Interesting article from this week's Hacker Newsletter: iPhones are hard to use

The author touches on a number of cases for which this is true, but picking one out - text size - I think is illustrative of more general problems we all probably fall victim to in software development, in failing to think deeply about users whose experience is unlike our own:

Quote:
On two occasions on the same bus route, I couldn’t stand to watch late-middle-aged persons (eyeglasses perched on forehead in one case) struggle to read their iPhones. I took hold of their phones for a moment each (I got permission) and brought up the well-hidden screen for text-size selection. They picked the bigger fonts they’d needed all along. They were so grateful it was embarrassing.

The same thing later happened, though not on a bus, with an 85-year-old who was also struggling.
Quote:
If Apple actually cared about accessibility (it does not), on the setup screen for every iPhone, iPad, and iPod Touch would be a step you could not skip wherein you have to choose your preferred text size.
Quote:
If – further – Apple were committed to diversity (it is not), middle-aged persons would be involved in product and software development and would be present to kick up a fuss when they themselves cannot read the products they created. (Or their complaints would actually be heeded.)
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10-27-2018 , 09:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmgGlutten!
If they come back and say that the 6th question was why you failed, then I would bring up that you were tired, that it wasn't really fair, etc.
Its totally valid that the 6th interview was rough because after a long day of interviewing you were tired and exhausted. That's super understandable and worth bringing up in a case like this if you get rejected because of that (although I can't imagine it ever changing anyones mind).

You can't ever bring up the "not fair" thing. It's true. And it definitely sucks that it happened. But from the company's point of view its still a data point that they'd be silly to throw away just because maybe it shouldn't have happened.
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10-27-2018 , 09:38 PM
You don't have to be 85 to need reading glasses to use a phone. It's pretty standard for 50 year olds, even late 40s. For me, I'm ok if I'm not wearing my contacts, but need reading glasses if I am.
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