** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD ** - Page 1239 - Computer Technical Help

I guess what I meant was more that if you hire the best possible people relative to who you are as a company, the assortative nature of hiring is going to ensure that the gap between your own internal top 1% and top 25% is going to be fairly small, unless you're very large and/or at/near the top-tier.

I disagree. Although I guess I’d be curious on people’s actual experiences.

Quote:

Originally Posted by candybar

But I think this was a bad and unnecessary tangent - even conceding that this doesn't matter, empirically, even big tech companies only have use the top of the technical ladder for exceptional cases that are statistically unlikely at small companies. If you take Google and scale it down to, say, a 100-people company, the number of people on the technical ladder at or above director level would be ~0. So while I haven't had good experience with companies trying to use the technical ladder, I think my argument has more to do with how very few companies try to maintain any kind of equivalence between the management ladder and the technical ladder.

Yeah, I definitely don’t think this is something that makes sense at the 100 person company level. Nor even necessarily at the 100 engineer level.

Even at 100 you might have 1-2 people that would fit the role and you probably don’t need formal processes/titles for how you treat them. They’re almost always going to be early employees anyway and probably quite fine without titles as long as they get to be involved.

Quote:

Originally Posted by candybar

Since it's not actually necessary to maintain the technical ladder to retain such exceptional people - you can always just give them management titles and compensation but not management responsibilities, which is what investment banks do for top individual contributors, technical or otherwise - I do believe that much of this is about managing perception, internally and externally.

Yeah, definitely.

Quote

11-27-2017 , 07:24 AM

#30952

jjshabado

Carpal Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 22,732

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sholar

This line of reasoning also work for management (and probably also has a lot of truth to it there) and yet...

I think 100 is where directors generally start making sense but it depends on a lot of factors. You’re going to need the management later we’ll before any equivalent technical later.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sholar

I agree that this is true, in part for many of the reasons you give (e.g. it probably doesn't make sense since no one is that great, it's hard to do well, and you can always make random exceptions in role for people you want to retain).

I'm not sure, offhand, which, if any, of the non-top5 tech companies have coherent/admired dual tracks.

There’s a bunch out there - you can find various blog posts and such describing them and how they work.

Quote

11-27-2017 , 07:28 AM

#30953

jjshabado

Carpal Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 22,732

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mihkel05

cb,

k. Actually reread a lot of that with jj in context. Wao. Agree with a lot you say.

jj,

You think you anymore than a peon? If not, why aren't you paid as such?

Think you getting real crazy nao. But hey, if I had so few reports and was paid so little I'd look for validation.

Lol. Thremp, you’re so predictable. You dont need to have a hissy fit because it’s clear you’re once again talking out of your ass.

My Favorite Thrempism is the all of a sudden “reverse everything I said about one idiot because now i want to try to embarrass this other guy who’s making me feel bad about myself”.

I don’t need validation. Remember what I said before about you.

Quote

11-27-2017 , 07:55 AM

#30954

Sholar

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6,357

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjshabado

There’s a bunch out there - you can find various blog posts and such describing them and how they work.

For sure. And I see that you had a somewhat larger organization in mind than I was initially reading which is probably a bit of the disconnect. (And also that sometimes I suspect those blog posts are a bit forward-looking or marketing.)

My impression from smaller places where I had more first-hand knowledge is that these were somewhat aspirational or parallel titles were actually not equivalent in compensation (consistent with your and candybar's comments) and I don't know of places where it worked great which past what I would call start up.

Quote

11-27-2017 , 11:21 AM

#30955

microbet

Solar Powered

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 56,721

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

Microbet is a noob just trying to create an app as a hobbyist. Therefore my gut feeling is to try to steer him toward something that doesn't require as much deep understanding of the language - which can only be attained over time and experience.

As far as people who know what they're doing - you play the hand you're dealt. Or try to change it as much as you can. Or eventually quit - like I am doing. But I could be back in a situation like that and I will just do my best to get the job done with the tools at my disposal.

I'm more inclined to learning concepts than a bunch of libraries or something. I tend to and don't much mind reinventing wheels.

The most important feature other than being theoretically possible is that the application work on different OS versions without a lot of tweaking. The second most important I think is just the ease of getting to 'hello world' on my phone. I don't mind the puzzle of programming, but I don't like the admin stuff.

Quote

11-27-2017 , 11:48 AM

#30956

well named

poorly undertitled

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 78,077

I know virtually nothing about mobile game development but phaser.io seems like a good way to end up with something that works everywhere.

Quote

11-27-2017 , 12:59 PM

#30957

saw7988

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 11,463

Unity is pretty much the gold standard of newbie cross platform basic game development. It's even used by professional game devs across all platforms as well.

I highly recommend using an engine (like Unity).

If you want a more pure programming experience (like I do), you can use the MonoGame framework for C# or libGDX for Java. I just finished a libGDX game on Android. In theory both frameworks have the tools for cross platform release, but I can't say how easy it is, since I don't have a mac, which you need to get games on the iOS app store.

JavaScript seems like a poor choice for doing anything unless it's a requirement or you happen to know it really well.

Quote

11-27-2017 , 01:12 PM

#30958

Grue

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 5,667

My game is just JS/html and CSS transitions, and yet it causes my 2013 mbp to turn its fan on full blast and drain tf out of its battery. So uh not recommended.

Quote

11-27-2017 , 01:15 PM

#30959

fredd-bird

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 19,337

Possibly check out https://www.construct.net/? It was posted itt by one of it's creators.

Quote

11-27-2017 , 03:20 PM

#30960

Victor

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 72,403

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustyBrooks

Everyone bitches about redux but I also thought that was pretty straight forward

I think redux is pretty straightforward, but there is a bit of a steep curve for setting it up. Like, its a lot of work if you are gonna make a simple little project. once you get it up and working, its very easy to scale tho.

Quote

11-27-2017 , 03:31 PM

#30961

Grue

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 5,667

Nothing that makes up its own vocabulary is simple imo.

Quote

11-27-2017 , 03:49 PM

#30962

kerowo

lolcat

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 37,190

Strategery!

Quote

11-27-2017 , 09:35 PM

#30963

Grue

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 5,667

anyone (specifically JS people) use

Code:

const x = y;
const foo = bar;

over

Code:

const x = y,
    foo = bar;

I currently use later and have forever because its foldable and less typeytypey but uh starting to find it a bit confusing. Not sure why. Olds.

Quote

11-27-2017 , 11:18 PM

#30964

Craggoo

banned

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 12,644

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grue

anyone (specifically JS people) use

Code:

const x = y;
const foo = bar;

over

Code:

const x = y,
    foo = bar;

I currently use later and have forever because its foldable and less typeytypey but uh starting to find it a bit confusing. Not sure why. Olds.

Our es linter would throw an error in the second scenario. Someone (not me) also decided that any trailing

Quote:

;

would also throw an error.

Quote

11-28-2017 , 01:02 AM

#30965

Grue

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 5,667

"standard.js" FTW probably. Seems like most people like the first option nowadays but I uh don't really like that much typing which means I'll make yet another VSC snippet I guess.

Quote

11-28-2017 , 01:12 AM

#30966

suzzer99

Save the Cheerleader, Save the World

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 99,984

I like the first option unless I'm cramming all the declarations on one line for some reason.

Quote

11-28-2017 , 01:37 AM

#30967

_dave_

_Pooh_Bah_

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,146

I use the first option.

Quote

11-28-2017 , 02:48 AM

#30968

lostmypw

enthusiast

Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 97

+1 for first

Quote

11-28-2017 , 10:02 AM

#30969

candybar

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 4,234

I like the first option for the same reason I like trailing commas - it keeps diffs clean as you add, remove and reorder declarations.

Quote

11-28-2017 , 12:01 PM

#30970

kerowo

lolcat

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 37,190

I like the first option because it reminds me of all the typing I did doing COBOL.

Quote

11-28-2017 , 01:01 PM

#30971

Larry Legend

Celtic Pride

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 42,920

When I'm reading source code and stepping through internal functions of libraries, I feel like I see the 2nd a lot.

In things that aren't libraries I don't think I've ever seen it, and I agree its confusing when reading quickly.

Quote

11-28-2017 , 01:02 PM

#30972

Grue

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 5,667

Hmm OK I'll switch, seems like 2nd is on its way out.

Quote

11-28-2017 , 01:40 PM

#30973

well named

poorly undertitled

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 78,077

We use the 2nd here, but I don't have any particularly strong feeling about it either way.

Quote

11-28-2017 , 01:42 PM

#30974

microbet

Solar Powered

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 56,721

I'm going to try phaser.io. For one I don't need 3D and maybe Unity is a little heavy for my lame PC because it does more than I need, but more than that I have a little javascript experience and having been in web development javascript/html5 is probably something I could find more use for anyway than C#.

Thanks all.

Quote

11-28-2017 , 01:51 PM

#30975

well named

poorly undertitled

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 78,077

fwiw I suspect they are correct about the performance implications of using javascript, although it also seems possible to me that the way phaser uses Canvas/WebGL might help. I suggested phaser.io mostly just because I thought it might be easier to get started with. I have no idea whether that's really true though.

Good luck

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