It's true, if you cause someone to get fired, you have to kill them. Look, I don't make the rules. You knew what you were getting into.

Idk why everything backfires on me so bad. i want to explain what just happened but people are gonna tear it down or question my integrity or call me a liar. Basically they just gave me authority over everything and some limited hiring/firing power. He said I'll longer be touching code because I can't handle both workloads, I've tried to tell him that for months. He said if I want to be a dev later, fine, we'll maneuver whatever pieces to get you to do that. But for now he wants me to kick ass and make sure people are doing what they are supposed to do and for whatever reason he thinks i am the right person to do it.

I reiterated that I do not see myself in this role and that it makes me really unhappy. He said they will give me whatever I want, pretty much name it. Okay then.

My mind isnt really changed but I'm gonna be curious to see what numbers they throw at me tomorrow. I really didn't want this scenario, I have to say no but they're gonna make it really difficult.

I'm not gonna make any more posts about this, sorry. People questioning my honesty really bugs me. I'm really alone and miserable and scared right now and didnt have anywhere else to talk about it, so thanks.

One last thing - you need to realize that this company has only like 14 people. It is much smaller than a lot of places you guys have worked, which probably explains some of the confusion, hopefully.

Just remember - you can always take the money and leave 3 months later. But having that higher salary and job title will give you a leg up when looking for other jobs.

jmakin, I'm sure I'm not the only one here that is rooting for you and has been in similar situations as you're in now. A couple of jobs ago the main communication method between the leadership team was screaming at each other and the secondary method was one of the team telling me to tell another member something since I was the only one that would talk to everyone else.

I know it's been cathartic for me to tell stories here. But everyone is different and only one person knows what's going to make you happy and that's you. For both the board and your job do what you want, don't let others pressure or guilt you into doing something you don't want to do.

But hear them out. And think of a stupidly high number that would keep you there. And counter with that before you quit, if only to tell us how it went.

Unless you just super don't care about being unemployed for a bit, I don't recommend this route. When I left a job (the one before my last one) in 2014, it was in a "I can't do this anymore" type of way. Because of that, I only interviewed at one place, got one offer, and took it without really negotiating (because what leverage do I have when I just really want to get out of where I am?). Probably cost me a lot of money over the next 4 years by not fully exploring my options.

Unfortunately, if you really want to get out of a place, this advice is generally too late - the solution is to start looking and lining up options before it gets that bad.

I realize this probably isn't going to be much help, but really please try and focus on the good responses. Why give a sh*t if 2/10 posters on the internet don't believe a story if you get eight useful / supportive responses? Their loss. Put people on ignore if need be.

I super dont care about anything right now. I could be unemployed in tech for years and be fine. I need to renew my captains license now but thats not a problem. I could work anywhere in the world and live comfortably just doing that. I dont really care about the impressive resume anymore so an employment gap wouldnt bother me THAT much. My resume is so goofy though maybe thatd be a risk. Im probably way underthinking what a bad spot id be in if i didnt find a job for a while but short of a major recession i just cant see how thatd happen. Everyone thats left (lots of turnover in the last 8 months), even our super bad performers found jobs at major companies like apple, google, amazon. Like super easily. So maybe i am a bit cocky about my chances and abilities but **** it. I have a large skillset if i were to break it down and i can prove it easily in an interview.

150k is my absurd number. If they came down to 125 id be like ok. But if they gave it to me, and at this point nothing can shock me, i feel like i couldnt even take that. I am not worth that and i could never provide that much value to them. That’d drive me crazy. I feel theyre just desperate right now thats all it is. It feels vaguely predatory to me.

But say theyre just feeding me lines of BS to get me to stay, idc. Show me youre willing to put skin in this game and ill think about it.
Otherwise i dont buy anything anymore.

I try not to post here now but jmakin



cmon this is performance art at this point right.

I don’t know what I’m doing that’s why I posted here

150k absurd?

@Grue - No. Jmakin is the real deal. He's just in a psychotic situation.

If I was posting where when I worked for the startup as my first job in LA with the psycho boss I'd be even more unhinged.

@jmakin - $150k is not out of line for someone with experience. If they offer you that it means they value you as much as people with 4x as much experience. So take that as a huge compliment.

I'd snap take it and then still look around. Just being able to say you make that gives you instant cred with other places.

Also if anyone is driving you nuts just put them on ignore.

Thank you for this it really means a lot to me. I have explicitly recommended them hiring someone with more experience and making me a dev or letting me go entirely - and i’d even be willing to help - but theyve made it seemingly clear they want me. Honestly the more i tell them these things honestly it seems the more they want me. I really feel like the guy in office space at the moment. I swear to god

But anyway that seems airtight to bring to the table as far as salary so thank you. I know you know this market well.

Im ****ing sick of being taken advantage of and just want a fair shake. It happened at my
Last job too and i never was in a strong enough position to just leave.

Just look at your salary like a ratchet. It will for the most part never go down unless you deliberately take a job you like better for less money. Ratchet that **** up and deal with the fallout later.

Get a raise and a 1 week vacation to some place relaxing, then re-evaluate.

I'm a bit unclear about the exact title/career path that you'd be moving into but if it's what I think, product/engineering management, 150k isn't even unreasonable.

Like that would be in a completely normal range for someone with a couple years experience in those roles in the SF Bay area. LA isn't that much cheaper of a market.

I think you can shoot higher. For like 180k. Then you can settle for 150k if they counter.

But I'd definitely take the salary while looking for something where you'll be happier.

Jmakin is out in the sticks outside San Diego I believe.

right. leaving your job without anything lined up is crazy. given how much support it seems you get from upper management and ownership I cant imagine this job is as bad as you say it is. the choice isnt to quit or stay. just keep your job while looking for a new one.

ya now Im on Grues side. lol at a fair shake. this company is begging you to stay and teling you to name your price. and you are whining about not getting a fair shake. jfc.

Among the small group of people I discuss salary numbers with IRL, both of whom are early 30s-ish, they're either making or (one is looking) have offers in the high 200s atm in/around SF. The market is wild once you get some experience.

(and, as many people will tell you, years of experience can be overrated if you're good at what you do - one of the guys on my team at my new job, who I think graduated from college in 2014 or 15, just got promoted to a level above where I got hired)

I would like to add that I don't think it's that crazy.

My second job in LA also had a pyscho boss - this time an alcoholic woman who terrorized us. She left the company and my stress level went from 100 to zero overnight.

Then she came back. I was apoplectic. I was sure she was going to get me fired somehow. But a wise older lifer dude gave me some good advice - he said basically "you're young, you seem like a sharp guy, even if that happens, you'll find more work". It really helped set my mind at ease.

About 6 months later she flamed out again.

Nothing remotely compares to SF right now.

Btw not discussing salary only helps bosses imo.

I think everyone should do it except maybe someone who knows they're making way more than everyone else for the same work. And even then they should but I can understand what they wouldn't.

Look what happened to C-level once the govt passed a law that their salaries had to be exposed. They all started comparing salaries and the average CEO went from like 10x the average worker to 400x or whatever.

If all salaries were public, you'd see a lot more equanimity and generally higher salaries imo. It's a lot easier to negotiate when you have concrete evidence of someone making a good deal more than you for the same job.

He's having a bit of a meltdown. I've been there so I can relate. Stress sucks.

If you've never had a hell job, especially when you're young and still don't know if you're even going to make it in this industry, consider yourself lucky.

Lol nice bug. They sent me an email, and auto-bill pay with BofA - that they owed me a credit of $138.68, instead of the other way around. And it took them a week to figure out the error.

C’mon a position in tech program management that is unstressed? Maybe this just indicates that this isn’t the right career path for jmakin. I don’t know if it s or isn’t. jmakin is getting good feedback in this thread.

He is giving me a list of expectations/responsibilities today and from what he told me it really is more like a technical program manager role. He wants me to coordinate all projects and engagements between all of our departments, and report directly to him (the CEO). This is well outside the realm of a project manager’s responsibilities in my opinion.

There's a difference between normal job stress and extreme dysfunction in your second job where you've been thrust into basically a management role that you're probably in a little over your head with. Again - if you don't know what extreme dysfunction on a job is like, consider yourself lucky. It's hell.

And even for less dysfunctional situations - it's pretty normal to have an adverse reaction to tech job stress the first few times you go through it. Doesn't mean you're not cut out for the job.

Then you get some experience and say "ok that didn't kill me" and you handle it a little better the next time. You learn to put better boundaries around how hard you work and how much you let it get to you.