For a couple of years. I was a live prop for a while, then went on my own. There were myriad issues with online play. I don't get much enjoyment out of poker, though I am considering going back to it after I save a little chunk from this job.

What free time?

One of the nice things about LA is that there are plenty of things to do for money even if you aren't employed, so there is really no reason to be penniless. Broke? Well, yeah, it's expensive here.

I don't want to get into everything I did, but it ranged from carpentry to massage (went to school for that ). I was also doing a ton of writing for websites back when you could actually make money at it: I would be sitting on a film set and writing articles. I would then go the library and type up the articles and submit them. I was effectively working 70+ hours a week for little money really. Other times I was actually working an honest 70+ hours a week for little money.

There was times I was running a jack-hammer, digging holes, or putting a roof on a house under the hot sun for $80/day or working in warehouses for $50/day. Things like that. I didn't care as long as I make money. Craigslist used to be a great resource for odd jobs and networking. I used to work for a few temp firms.

As an aside, I can't tell you how much I respect construction workers, including the stupid dullards. The amount of injuries they sustain is just incredible and they just get up and do the same work the next day. I have no clue how they can keep it up until they are 60 years old. Way underpaid, effectively no insurance, and just horribly abused. The temp firms are the worse and I wish to hell they were shut down for running blatantly illegal operations. Thankfully I didn't work for them too much.

I was an utter technophobe until recently. I recall buying my first laptop, which I bought off eBay: I had to go the friend's house so he could show me how to turn it on. That computer died within a month. I bought a few more, but they all sparked out within 1 to 3 months, which didn't do well to cure my technophobia. This is why online poker never worked out for me.

I began programming about 2 1/2 years ago.

I been at this job for about 9 months. I had my last job for one year, almost to the day. And I had that internship for 1 month. The last legit job before that was when I was 22 or so. Not sure how you enumerate the years in working experience.

There's a bunch of trade offs. Like I've probably been neglecting my health too much and right now I'm at the heaviest I've ever been. I pay people to fix up some minor stuff around the house that I could probably do myself, but I value an extra 6 hours of Saturday coding above the $100 I throw a guy to put up drywall or install a bathroom fan. I don't play video games or watch much TV anymore, but I do still force myself to find time for a movie here and there. I've probably shaved an hour off my sleep time in the last 5 years but I'm okay with that as long as I'm still sleeping at 95%+ efficiency. I haven't learned a completely new programming language in a few years. I suck at fantasy baseball.

It's just a constant game of prioritization. Right now it's kids + work over all those things I just listed. In a couple years it'll be different. Luckily coding and kids are 2 things I typically enjoy, and I think that helps avoid burnout.

Thanks for sharing your story dave!

You have these things on your resume, correct? Software developers are not much more than carpenters, technicians, handymen and laborers who happen to work in the digital realm. These don't cease to be jobs simply because you hustled for yourself instead of working through an employer.

They all seem like legit jobs and don't be shy to present them as such. Employers generally don't like gaps because they can be indicative of criminal history, drug/gambling/alcohol addiction and other mental issues, not always because they are prejudiced against freelance blue-collar work. There's not much reason to be embarrassed about your work history, though I wouldn't talk about massage or poker.

I don't have those on my resume for a few reasons.

The first is that I'm trying to show a career change resume, and I am attempting to show the few successes I've had.

Second, people pigeon hole you really fast. Everyone likes to say they want to see that you can wake up in the morning, you are independent, a self starter, looking for self improvement, etc., but that is all lip service. At the end of the day, they want as little risk as possible.

This third ties into the above. Showing a broad range of items seems to tell people. that you are scattered and a general lost cause.

I used to put that all on my resume via the advice of resume writers. After asking actual HR people about it and sifting resumes myself, I've learned that simple and focused is much stronger. Wothpit irony, this approach actually gets responses. There is quite a bit of power attached to a legit company name.

thanks for sharing your story dave

any suggestions for those of us who do have gaps because of some combination of these issues?

be so good they can't ignore you? elaborate lies? lol

I think this is accurate.

You shouldn't optimize for responses - you should optimize for quality offers.

Your resume doesn't show a visible gap now, does it? I don't care how you fill it and you certainly don't have to enumerate everything you ever did in lieu of a coherent career narrative, but it's better to construct a narrative out of the things you did than to deny that your work history exists.

If I hear this IRL, I'm immediately thinking criminal/drug/mental issues.

Not sure. This is uncharted territory for me but I think a lot depends on what shows up in your background check and your overall profile. The more you have to hide, the more it helps to have a profile where no one would suspect anything. For example, people talk about whether it's okay to list having been a professional poker player as part of work experience. Aside from this being job-dependent, it's also profile-dependent. A white/asian ivy-league cs/economics/math major with internships in finance applying for trading jobs can get away with listing professional poker as experience in analytic decision-making under pressure. The further you're away from this ideal profile, the more skepticism you will face.

dave...if you don't feel like programming after work...just don't do it. There's no need to and you won't be looked down upon by anyone. It also doesn't mean that you have less drive or are less dedicated.

I can't stress this enough. Just get the sleep or do something you actually enjoy. It's very important to spend most of your time doing things you enjoy. Positive psychology is a thing and it works amazingly well.

Poker is on my resume and I don't think it hurts. Like I said before I generally don't want to work for people who are not curious about this and snapjudge it as instabad...granted there are probably some exceptions and I feel like I can be choosy.
+1 to what candybar said regarding poker though. It does fit for jobs I'm interested in (I emphasise decision making under pressure/psychological strength, learning/doing things because you can/being curious, analytical skills etc)

For those with resume gaps, just fake it until you make it. Don't worry about the places that say no. You aren't getting those jobs anyway. But you just need one place with lazy fact checking to say yes, and you don't want to give that place any reason to say no.

That advice violates my personal code of ethics but it's probably good advice.

I don't normally advocate lying, but the job market is kind of a mess. Companies use statistical discrimination to filter candidates with things like possessing a college degree and work history. If you truly believe that you can do the job you're interviewing for and you get hired and do the job at a satisfactory level, I don't see the harm. There are a lot of reasons that someone might slip through a resume filter that have nothing to do with the ability to do the work.

lol, it's awful advice guaranteed to cost you your dream job after you've accepted it for lying on your resume.

i actually think it's unlikely you'll ever be found out after they hire you.
it's not like he's getting hired to be CEO of a company, he's getting hired for a junior to mid web dev position. if i hired someone like that and found out they had lied on their resume but they had been doing good work for a month and were clearly capable of doing the job, i wouldn't even consider firing them.

So true, I know a really good general handyman who knows a lot about everything in that area of knowledge. He was once talking to me about how a boiler works and how the pipes running in the house form a closed loop.

He barely knows how to check his email and read twitter but just the way he explains things leaves no doubt in my mind that he would be an incredible programmer if he applied his knowledge to that field. Bit late now since he's pushing 70 tho.

Maybe he just has a good head on his shoulders but he has some uncanny way of explaining him self and being able to break things down into clear steps.

This is also against my ethics, but honestly, of you've been employed for 2 years or more, it's the best damn advice you can get.

The honest route is finding some friends and hope they think you are a genius and refer you to their hell hole.

I did option 2.

Meh, its still dishonest and I wouldn't do it. To each their own.

The problem with resume advice is that most of it (including what I give) is based off of a small sample size. I have no idea the actual optimal strategy for writing a resume - so I tend to lean towards this philosophy. That is, put what you think is important/interesting and hope that helps you get a job at a company that values those things.

Not lying is probably costing someone even the chance to interview for their dream job.

I haven't lied on my resume, but I am not in a position where I feel I have to. My advice is specifically for someone who doesn't have much to lose and everything to gain.

Since we are talking about resume stuff. If I played poker for the better part of a decade for a living, but now am enrolled in a good CS undergrad program, should I even put poker on my resume?

I lean heavily towards no, but I'm not sure what is "right." My thoughts are that my GPA / projects will hopefully stand out on their own to get me interviews, especially with all the recruiters I am around. I don't overly stick out as being older than everyone else by as much as I am, though I am miles more mature than my peers so maybe in that manner I do.

My best chances of interviews seem to be without poker as it only seems like it can hurt (and very rarely help). Once I reach an interview though, I'm a bit uncertain of how to deal with it. I obviously can't lie, but it feels like if it comes up (and it may not) that it may seem like I'm hiding something.

Of course, there is the odd case of applying to trading firms where I would definitely include it, but in general I'm wondering if my inclination to leave it off is right and what I do come interview time if it does come up.

It really depends on what you accomplished in poker. Stuff like high tournament finishes, TV appearances, endorsements, training sites etc are very impressive to the average person. Even my master's advisor was impressed with my blog and leggo coach profile and he is a Harvard Phd.

Having poker on your resume is a tough spot. I'm not sure how you can spin that into anything positive on paper. I brought up that part of my work history at one interview, and the guy said "You know, there was guy here the other day who told me that."

I didn't get that job due to other factors, but honestly, I don't think it dropped me down any pegs.

Honestly don't care what everyone else thinks of me. Oddly, people think am highly competitive when I'm really just competitive to myself. So, the only person who I tend to live with that criticizes me is me.

Own worst enemy and stuff.

Really? Being a professional poker player requires all sorts of skills that are useful in a CS position.