cool ill keep this in mind thx.

why does this matter?

When you stop worrying about being a noob

obviously this isn't one size fits all, but if i had to guess some strong correlation factors, it would be like:

strong intermediate
you use keywords like yield and filter
you use correct datastructures, especially BSTs
you know and can use bitwise operations effectively
you have a sense of the runtime speed of your code in extreme cases

expert
you know about decorators and monads and can use them to greatly simplify code
you leverage dynamic typing correctly (dont need to check if something is an int or a string etc.) and can override methods appropriately
you understand MVC model and how it relates to your programming; you understand threading.* and how multithreading should work
other experts can understand your code quickly and you would be able to code well with others

Binary search trees and bitwise operations? Really?

Intermediate Python is filtering map-reduced bitwise XORs out of a stacked queue of binary tree generators.

Yield def. beginning Python stuff.

Meh depends on your definitions of beginner, intermediate and advanced.
I think beginner could also defined as doing basic stuff and understanding the OO concepts and you could start intermediate with the functional stuff. Adding yield to the intermediate category is defendable imo. Maybe using yield is beginner and really understanding it is intermediate.

My very useless definition of intermediate would probably be that your code is pythonic by default :P

Maybe there are no experts after all ;P

I'd def be interested in creating a 2p2-approved (lol) list going though. would be pretty useful for the "where should I start, what should I learn" questions. If anyone here is working at a python shop maybe just post what you'd roughly expect and intern or junior dev to know (just language wise not development practices etc)?

When I said strong intermediate, I was sort of thinking the minimum level required to have significant involvement in a project (involving python code)

Also these were correlation factors, not every person has every factor, but its something where, if I saw it, I would feel it is very likely they were an expert for example.

What are you doing where you need bitwise operations? Why do you need binary search trees as opposed to the built in set/dict structures?

And are these use cases so common that most intermediates would run into them?

Looks like I took a lot of heat for what I said,.. again its not a one size fits all.

I said these were the factors for me that would correlate most strongly with that level of ability. Also no one else put out a definition, donno why I am basically getting blamed here.

I'm actually sincerely curious ... not just disagreeing.

Wasn't disagreeing either. I would definitely like to know the answer to the bitwise and BST question as well. I'm kind of surprised people are pushing around bits with Python.

And also the monad thing... You can do functional programming in Python, but it's fundamentally NOT an FP language, and going so far as to use monads in Python seems a little overkill.

Hi guys, I'm missing something silly in recursion, can you tell me what I'm doing wrong?

So if I run func("test"), it doesn't return "True" only "None", but why?

what happens to the result of `func(word[1:])`?

also, learn how to use print statements (or a debugger!) to figure out what your program is doing.

Hey thanks for response,

I did put in print, so this
Outputs "test 4 ", "est 3", "st 2", "None", but I expect the "None" to be True

Hint: Your function rarely actually returns anything.

I know it doesn't return anything, but why doesn't the "if len(word) <= 2:" trigger the return when len(word) evaluates to 2?

^ Oops I figured it out, thanks for the tip, forgot the "return" to call the recursive lol

Wow, this thread is so legendary at least due to Alex Wice's immense participation, I need to bump it at least to see quicker which exactly familiar 2+2'ers have posted here (It's been a surprise to me that Alex and the chess forum mod RoundTower have been Python programmers at least at some point )

I think the tradition of official language-specific threads was great, wonder why it died in 2013... (Well, there's a much newer 'learning Python' thread but I'm not sure if it has been regarded as official.)

I didn't ever read this forum until fairly recently. I only had a small idea it even existed. I was surprised to find out that so many 2+2ers I know are secret computer nerds.

Well. Not *that* surprised, but a little.

Holy crap. I don't even remember what I started this thread about, in the last 5 years only 2 of the schlubs I worked with are still at the company. The support department doesn't exist as the devs who built the product now support the product. We've switched architectures once and products multiple times and now I'm a Product Owner. I am probably going to have to write some Python soon though to work with Alooma for getting some of our ingest data into a Redshift table...

Wow, congrats! (even though the title 'product owner' is a bit misleading as you're apparently still subordinate to someone, I guess you're still making big money in this role, though your responsibility is also huge).

I'm surprised by the big %-age of posts by 'members of colour' (green, yellow etc.) in this forum, I guess that's because it's discussed more often on the mod forum than on other non-mod ones, and also because devs seem less meticulous about the way they spend time than 'greedy' poker players, so a dev is more likely to agree to become a mod than an average 2+2'er.
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As for Python, there are a couple of reasons why I'm still wary of it: firstly, it seems to allow a bit too much freedom (e.g. too many typecasts) and I'm afraid of messing things up and not being able to debug fast (I've been told that, in C#, half of stupid mistakes are revealed during compilation already); secondly, my go-to example of how a Python GUI might look like is FPDB, and though I last used it as many as 2 or 3 years ago and it might look more modern now, the way it looked and operated then was too reminiscent of the 90s though I can't blame it - it was doing the job it was expected to do for its zero price

Yea, there is a lot of hand-waving and dotted lines in that title that hopefully will settle down to just product owner. I'm making decisions on the product and leading the dev team that's implementing it, that's close enough to PO for me.

I think there were just a lot of mods that were technical and pushed for the forum to get started way back when and that's why we're a little overrepresented in the earlier threads.

I'm surprised in general that 'product owner' is a legit name for a position; I'm under the impression that any freelancer is more of an owner of his products (i.e. has more control over them but also faces more risk) than a corporate so-called 'product owner'.

If you're worried about dumb mistakes, I guess I propose you use an IDE like Pycharms. I was never a proponent of IDEs, but I like Pycharms quite a bit. It will show you syntax errors, and it will help you with some more subtle mistakes also. It also helps by auto-filling function parameters and stuff like that. It's sped me up a lot - I basically never run a piece of python with syntax errors any more, because I've caught them before I even save the file.