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Originally Posted by candybar
A first-job jr developer can make 140k or more if they are of the right type but that's not the point. It's not because programming is a better career that these people get paid that much but because they are starting with a level of knowledge, experience, credentials and background that would be unheard of for a carpenter. It's like saying a junior finance person can get 150K or more because that's what some investment banking or private equity analyst programs pay and using that to argue that it's better to become a bank teller than to become a plumber.
hardly relevant. Your claim is that programmers are somehow equivalent to manual skilled laborers in pay and lifestyle, and that is categorically false.
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There are programming equivalents for all of these - I thought of all people, you would know? I thought despite being a pretty good programmer with years of learning while living in one of the largest metro areas in the country, you struggled to get to an acceptable level of pay.
My personal issues aren't relevant. There are many factors that play into my situation, but none of them have to do with my abilities, or lack of. I'm working on those issues and slowly learning: 90% deals with me, and about 10% deals with the environment, and I think the 10% is merely aberration, thus can mostly be ignored.
I also worked in construction for many years, and just as well, struggled to get to an acceptable level of pay, despite leading teams of workers.
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There are coders who make less tha $12/HR. You don't get a programming job @ 70K without years of training in math and significant experience and/or a fancy background.
Then you clearly are anti-bootcamp, and apparently find these stories pure myths:
http://blog.ilovecoding.org/6-figure-developer-job/
http://adzerk.com/blog/2015/11/getti...-as-you-think/
I could pull up another 100 articles if I was in the mood, but to say the least, there are dozens of articles about people starting to code, and in 6 months, hitting the $70k and more milestone.
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The level of experience, knowledge and sheer aptitude that even an average CS graduate from an average state school brings is staggering compared to what apprentice carpenters bring to the table. If you want to get a programming job with no skills, experience or proven aptitude, you'd make about the same as apprentice carpenters. Conversely, if you're a carpenter who's as good at your craft as programmers who earn 6-figures are, I expect you to be earning 6-figures as well - good ones make a lot of money.
Like all things, this is situational and prone to error. I always said it before and I'll maintain my opinion: some of the dumbest people I worked with were the highest paid people on the site, and trust me, I'm not being a h8er or anything. Like, they were truly dumb as bricks, careless in their work, and had to be taught to use a measuring tape. There is so much more to life and earning some 6fig, much dealing with luck, especially in fields where 6fig is considered rare and mostly unattainable.
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Again, of all people, I thought you should know that the world of programming is not like this - you're looking at a fairly elite slice, one that happens to be overrepresented in the US and specific areas within the US since practically all top software companies are located here and top software people everywhere migrate to the US. This isn't remotely the case if you look at all programmers everywhere.
Once again, totally irrelevant. A mansion on the lake in Cleveland, Ohio is about $150k. A 5 bedroom mansion with large yard and two patios in Mississippi can be rented for $400 / month. This is a reflection of how hard money is to come by in those areas, and a reflection of the average cost of living, and shouldn't be compared to cities like LA.
This disparate pay is not isolated to programming, but includes other high paying fields such as law, accounting, medicine, etc.