Hi ionutd,

i am looking for a new wireless mouse with two side buttons, nothing special, no gaming except poker.

can you please recommend one for me?

Length: 18cm
Width: 10.5cm
Palm (sometimes finger tip i think)
Wireless (i favor bluetooth)
Germany, 30-50€

Thx in advance!

that's an interesting hand shape, it's on the shorter side but fat
which means you could use a wider mouse, there are a few really good value shorter and thinner options out there, I don't think they'd fit your hand well tho
tell me, when you put your hand on your mouse, do you like to put all 3 middle fingers on top (one one left click, one next to scroll, one on right click) or just 2 up top and the ring finger + pinky dangling on the right side of the mouse?

for now I'll recommend either this https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Logitech-...mputers&sr=1-2

has BT built in + a wireless dongle, so you can connect to 2 computers at once and either switch between them with a button or Logitech has a nice piece of software that allows you to move the cursor automatically to the other pc when you touch the side of your screen and also lets you move files between the 2 computers this way.
has a nice scroll wheel, you have the option to have it spin freely to scroll really fast down a long document or use as a fidget spinner
shape should fit your hand

or this https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Razer-Bas...7789229&sr=8-5

gaming mouse or not, it's a nicer piece of tech and it will last you longer, particularly the clicks, as it doesn't develop double clicking issues which are annoying af. should fit your hand better and can palm it. not BT tho and doesn't have any of the software benefits of the Logitech if those are important to you. scroll also not as kewl.

I would advise you to avoid the generic 20 eur office mice because they're almost all ****, last you a year on average and the shapes are ugh. If you like vertical mice, those are ok but the micro switches for the clicks don't really hold up long time in my experience. https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Rechargea...792117&sr=8-41
at least they give you 2x left and right clicks with the one I linked lol
these are comfy for me, tho it takes a few days to get used to one and they're esp good if your wrist hurts. I use either a vertical or a trackball mouse, in rotation with my regular main mouse to avoid wrist and finger pain.

lol yeah, maybe it's 19 cm rather than 18. i didn't quite know where exactly to start measuring, but ok, i guess that's not so crucial..

i usually put all 3 middle fingers on top.

thanks so far for your help. i'll take a look at the links

awesome thread, glad i found it, curious what you recommend as I should be building a desktop within next few months

mouse
hand 20 mm (palm is 9 mm wide)
fingertip style three middle up top and thumb and pinky just hanging out overboard (recall palming in the past when i had those bulky mouses but lately been using ones similar in shape to apple ones because they travel well with laptop so possibly due to current design usage of past 5+ years)
right handed not sure if relevant but my pointer fingers are a little longer than usual, extending about halfway in between the gap of the middle and index fingers

i prefer using the mouse wheel when browsing online so that's something i'd definitely want included but can learn to go without

mostly using trackpad these days and only bust out mouse when need the heavy lifting but with plans for a pc build that changes things

keyboard open to suggestions, always been a fan of using the numerical pad and it kills me that's not on more laptops

open to learning non qwerty variations

not a gamer, if i do then it's slow and methodical stuff like civ and crusader kings and just play poker casually these days so don't imagine i'll need hotkeys very much

don't have any need to buy the cool thing or spend a lot of extra for small changes but never used anything beyond stock keyboard and mouse so open to upgrading

in this case my recommendations stand
you get one and you don't like it, return it and hit me back with what felt wrong about it

hi there Rick, let's get you some peripherals made for humans, buddy...
you didn't mention a budget, so I will assume you're willing to pay a bit more for some extra nice items. they're not unreasonably priced tho for what you get, I don't like expensive mediocre stuff. there are plenty of cheap mediocre products.

mouse
if you really like using a trackpad, I would suggest a trackball instead https://www.amazon.com/Kensington-Ex...7806442&sr=8-3
it's a lot easier on your fingers, the ball on this one is so big you basically get to wrap the middle 3 fingers around that ball, minimal movement is needed to use it, while your wrist comfortably sits on that inclined soft rest. it's like a 3d trackpad of sorts. you scroll using that ridged wheel around the ball, which is a lot of fun honestly. I've tried various trackball designs and neither were nearly as comfortable as that Kensington. It's a bit expensive but I think it's a thing of beauty and a satisfying experience. will take a week or so to get used to it, after that it's smooth sailing, some people never go back.

if you want a regular mouse

palm mice

cheap, good value, good shape
https://www.amazon.com/Razer-Basilis...7812325&sr=8-9

if you need more buttons for poker, great shape
https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Ligh...812890&sr=8-12

if you want Logitech's software that lets you connect seamlessly to 2 computers and transfer files in a sec. comfy mouse.
https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Mast...tronics&sr=1-1
or the newer version, with a more tilted ergo shape and super nice scroll wheels (and the coating is nicer)
https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Mast...7812671&sr=8-2

fingertip mice

not wireless but the wire is so soft and flexible, it basically feels wireless when used on a desk
https://www.amazon.com/Razer-Viper-U...7819003&sr=8-4

unique party piece, hot swap micro switches (can change them yourself in a minute if one goes bad). mouse switches are cheap and easy enough to find, this extends the life of your mouse indefinitely
https://www.amazon.com/ASUS-Optical-...7818984&sr=8-4


keyboard
are you open to importing? the vast majority of enthusiast grade boards hail from Asia (Taiwan, Hong Kong, South Korea, Japan, China). They ship wordwide using DHL usually, but 1. you have to wait a bit nowadays with Covid and 2. DHL often charges additional fees, they can be sneaky basterds, at least in Europe, idk how imports work in the US.

if so, top 2 options I would recommend;

functionality wise, this has all the features you could possibly want and need
https://epomaker.com/products/gk96s?...31882041425993
-one of the only southpaw versions out there, i.e. numberpad is on the left, which lets you move the keyboard as close as you want to your mouse and have room to move it freely and it's good for posture (so that your hands are not too far apart from shoulder width and create discomfort). does not apply if you use a trackball, as your hand stays in place at all times and your fingers do all the work, but still, if the numberpad is on the left, you can actually type in numbers quickly w/o having to take your hand off your mouse; esp useful in poker, right hand on mouse clicking the bet boxes, left hand on numberpad banging in the numbers. don't have to reach all the way to the right where the numberpad usually sits or reach to the row above all the letters or take your right hand off.
-both wired and wireless
-good quality PBT keycaps. it's a different type of plastic that won't change color over time, the legends will never fade away, the keycaps won't get that sheen to them caused by your Ph or oils in your fingers, they will basically look like new for 20-30 years.
-and most importantly, hot-swap and a vast choice of switches to try. few real advantages here, 1. can replace faulty switches with no tools in seconds, they are very cheap to buy, making the keyboard literally last forever (unless you dump a large coke on it, that will prob kill it), 2. can try different switches later in time, these vary a lot in feel and it's a pretty fun hobby to get into, 3. it's very easy to replace, fix or tweak the stabilizers beneath your larger keys. you got a squeaky space bar? can find diy tips on the internets and fix that up in 10 mins. if the board was not hot swap, doing this would require de-soldering a bunch of switches around the problem one which is a pain.
-here's what all the switches are like https://www.keychron.com/blogs/news/...l-switch-guide. if you can't decide which one you'd like, I recommend yellows, they're considered best bang for buck.

no.2 option https://www.nizkeyboard.com/collecti...yboard-non-rgb
more expensive but an experience on its own, these are "clones" of Topre switches. Topre keyboards come from Japan, they are incredibly well built and cost 300$+ Niz are a very good alternative for half the price.
they feel like typing on boobs and sound like rain drops in the forest. lol. listen for yourself https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eni07zZ5AYQ
seriously nice, quality keyboards

now I'm not entirely sure these are stocked in the US as the company is from South Korea, the middle man may or may not stock and there might be taxes to pay.
best pre-built keyboards available till you get to stupid money
available in different fun colors and beautifully finished. you get that artisanal ,hand made vibe. the switches are factory soldered (not hot swap). get this with Cherry MX Silent switches.
https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop...uct_list&c=365
https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop...uct_list&c=839

I'm guessing you're in your 40s+, so you might have used an IBM model M in the past and liked it. while those are no longer manufactured, a group of employees purchased all the old tooling from IBM and are now making the exact same boards in the same Kentucky factory. quality is 90% of what the golden age IBMs used to be, which means they're tanks that will basically last you forever. they're loud af and big/heavy, but like the trackball, it's a satisfying experience on its own, can't find anything quite like it. typing feels meaningful, like you're hammering something down
https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/NEW_M

woah dude i owe you a beer next time i'm in europe

lots to digest here, will go over all of it, thank you

close on the age but you shaded a few years too old fyi

Many thanks so far !! I will share my experience here..

happy to help
forgot to add, get yourself a wrist rest too, https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop..._detail&p=6460

just found out these guys have a new, cheap, seemingly decent keyboard. 60 bucks for a hot swap is really cheap. I don't think they're in the US, it's most likely a Chinese based company.
https://www.keychron.com/products/ke...32294075072601
get the hot swap for 10$ more
between the 3 options, as a new mech board user, I think you'd like the brown switches best, that's what people seem to prefer.
don't get blues, you'll regret it. they're lots of fun for about a week or 2, then they're constantly annoying, even if you live alone, there's no way to escape that clacking
on reds it's easier to make typing mistakes, they trigger easily

lemme know if you have other questions/curiosities

sure thing, glad to be of help

ionutd,

Thanks for your continuing effort here. It is excellent, we are all better for it.

Thanks Josem, you're too kind <3

if anyone has double click issues on their mouse (left button registers a 2nd click in quick succession when you tap it just once) that can't be solved by updating the firmware, I highly recommend this little piece of software

https://www.clickfix.cf/

it artificially introduces a bit of debounce delay after it hears the first click so that the 2nd one has no time to be detected. you're not going to love it if you play games where you have to spam the clicks but otherwise it works reliably. it's lightweight and you have to leave it open in the background, preferably have it on startup. might work even on old mice with dirty switches, but won't bring a dead one back to life.

just finished playing with a couple of sub 30$ mice that will wipe the floor with literally anything made for an office that you got and actually almost anything made a few years back (if you're ok with a wire).

no more excuses for cheap old office mice anymore guys. the "gaming" companies have started releasing very competitively priced products that look normal, make a lot of sense and with all the features you would dream of a couple of years ago. what was 100$ 2-3y ago is 25-30$ today and the difference between these 2 and the very best mice you can buy today is honestly minimal, I should know... approaching 80 models in my collection lol.

if in need of replacing the old Dell brick or just curious to try something genuinely new and much improved, I encourage you to give either of these a go.

https://www.roccat.com/products/burst-core
got this for 25$

https://www.razer.com/gaming-mice/ra...-03250100-R3U1
this was 30$

but for msrp, both 100% worth it

so how are these better

1.shape
comfy, easy to grip any way you want, suitable for the vast majority of hand sizes
2.weight
makes a world of difference to use a light mouse, these weigh 60-70g
3.optical switches
no more double clicking issues ever, the leds are rated for 50k hours, that's a 10y life if on for 14h a day
4.cable and feet
lighter, flexible cables that don't drag along, smoother feet that glide easy
5.sensors
actually usable in any game, any 3 monitor setup you got or 8k displays w/e, smooth tracking
6.build quality
no creaks, no wobbles, plastic is nicely coated, scrolls and side buttons are solid
7.the complete package. an improvement here and there and everywhere makes for a massive difference at the end of the day

oh and don't bother with the software guys, it's not worth it. Razer one is genuinely useful for macros on their keyboards, otherwise don't. Roccat's is junk.

the features i'm looking for in a mouse is that it can move a cursor and click buttons. that's all i dream of. my b100 does that, and it's 30% price of the roccat one

try one when yours kicks the bucket
what's 20 bucks
you use the damn thing for hours a day
it's not like you're buying Gucci toilet paper

i bought a new mouse a back in october gotta say its nicest mouse ive had, the shape and size and the weight all fit perfect to my hand size. I usually buy 10$ 12$ mouse- cheap n not worried if it breaks.
Its wireless - i do not do gaming etc

What i have noticed about this mouse is the incredible battery life on it - i use it for work (working from home- and then also after work personal use) its in use 12hrs a day at least and id say ive charged it 6 times if that.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Logitech MX Anywhere 2 Wireless Mouse, Bluetooth or 2.4GHz Wireless Mouse with USB Unifying Receiver, 1000 DPI Any Surface Laser Tracking

i think i got it on a deal in october currently its 50$ or so.


Reason i went for a more expensive one than usual was i was fed up of middle scroll/click always going on the cheaper ones - i seem to use that button a alot (opening new windows etc and scrolling)

i would def rate it 10/10 so far and i am sure theres more to do with it than what i sue it for.

I am going to get a nice new keyboard too - wireless


any advice appreciated - i would like a mechanical keyboard, wireless, good battery life, full layout preferable.
Not looking to spend heaps but will pay for quality when needed, so im guessing 40-100 euro max

any recommendations

i was looking at this one - reviews seem good but i think its US layout and i like knowing where buttons are
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mechanical-...s%2C136&sr=1-6

but anything similar id go for too

Hi there,

if you're shopping for a mech board, I would strongly suggest a hotswap, it's going to last you decades. could very well be the last keyboard you ever buy (if you don't spill drinks on it)

can fix everything yourself, tool-less, from malfunctioning individual switches to stabilizers making noise or wires coming apart. can also mod it in the future, a new set of switches starts from 25-30$ for a different feel, all other parts are common, off the shelf and cheap/easy to find, including a new battery.

the industry nowadays is moving towards optical and hall effect switches, opticals have their advantages but a limited lifespan, as they rely on the life of infrared leds. hall effect are the nicest and work with magnets which does mean a very long life as there's nothing really to break, but neither will be as durable as mechanical switches that you can change yourself when one dies.

so for full size, with wireless/bt, hotswap and an ISO layout (UK), it will have to be Keychron keyboards on keyboardco.com. https://www.keyboardco.com/category....&ss=lh&rtv=100

if you're not in a hurry and the exact model you want is not in stock, I suggest you wait, as these should get re-stocked regularly, they are in high demand + low-ish supply. can maybe pre-order or let them alert you when stock gets replenished.

so between the 3 switch options there,
red is linear, which means key goes down with a very light touch, smooth and un-eventful,
brown one has a little bump along the way, it seems to be the favorite among new people starting to use mechs but generally hated by enthusiasts. the bump will prevent most unwanted presses, keys are slightly harder to press but still light but it's not really smooth anymore
blues are loud, slightly harder still to press, same bump, they just implement a clicker mechanism. honestly, these are fun in the first week, then they get annoying, esp to people around you. I wouldn't really want to use them even if I lived alone cause you can hear them even with headphones on and others can hear them too over your microphone when chatting. almost all the random cheap boards you find on Amazon will have a cheap version of these.

I've just remembered, these are often in stock and a good option. you won't find UK layout or full sized here but hey, if you need smth quick...https://www.banggood.com/GamaKay-K87...rmmds=category
they ship from UK too and pretty fast, 3-4 days. the lights you can turn off if you want, otherwise it's decently well built and kinda pretty with the full christmas tree on actually. also not wireless.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9gRESbY-e8

lemme know if you got curiosities

other options on amazon, you won't find full size or UK layouts

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Keyboard-Wi...puters&sr=1-10

https://www.amazon.co.uk/EPOMAKER-Sw...uters&sr=1-145

Epomakers are ok, that Newmen one is built on a known platform, should be fine too.
first one is missing arrow keys and the F row
second one is the exact same size, but squeezes an arrow cluster by shortening the right shift. if you're a right shift kind of guy, you won't like it.
both are BT + wired (no 2.4Ghz dongle) and the BT on these can bet hit and miss sometimes, in my experience the later the bluetooth iteration, the better the connection is, so if you find 5.0 or 5.1 these will 95% be stable. first one is 5.0 specified, second one idk, I think so but not sure
both are pretty much as portable as it gets, they even give you a plastic tray to put on top and protect the keys during transport
also, try and find out if these actually ship from the UK, they don't always. if they don't, there will prob be VAT to pay + long time + sometimes you have to pick them up from the local customs office, not sure how UK handles international deliveries

everything I've linked is good value if you want to get a mech. try and stay away from brands like Logitech, Corsair, etc. overpriced crap.
or just get a cheap membrane and call it a day. I think anything in between doesn't make much sense. Get a good one that lasts forever and that you can easily and cheaply service yourself in a short time or get a cheap disposable board that you throw away when it dies, no regrets.

thanks ionutd

i will go over the ones you have suggested above and try see other reviews online for them see how others have got on with them, but all of them looks great so now i have a tough decision

if you're open to importing, this one's my favorite form factor

https://epomaker.com/products/gk96s

they have a southpaw version (numpad is on the left), esp useful when multi tabling clients with poor implementations of bet buttons and you have to bang in numbers often yourself. right hand stays on the mouse at all times, left hand on the numpad, super comfy.
go for the pbt keycaps (don't shine, legends don't wear off, don't yellow with time) and I suggest yellow switches, widely considered best value

fiy, they ship via DHL or some other fast courier so they come quick but DHL taxes you a bit extra when it arrives and they do the customs for you. prob 10-15 quid on top. also got to be careful you don't miss their call cause ofc they tax you for every day it spends in their warehouse. and you prob have to pay the VAT as well regardless.

Hi ionutd

i ended up getting the one i posted from amazon

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1


At first i thought made a huge mistake couldnt find the pipe symbol | which i use multiple times daily for work, aslo the " @ were swapped, lucky all i had to do was on windows choose english US layout and voila all good

the quality feels really good solid and a really good weight to it too, doesnt feel light or cheap. Also the lights i chose were white and they can be on/off low dim/bright and also they can do like a wave effect fast/slow.
Buttons feels sturdy, and its also meant to be waterproof, and the chassis top is like a brushed aluminium metal.

So im happy with it, thanks for your suggestions also, if this one dies early i will get one of them for sure.

nice, enjoy
fiy the waterproof claim is bogus, if you ever spill anything on it, turn off immediately, open it up, take it apart and wipe off liquid + let it air dry overnight. if it's some sugary drink that leaves residue, use some 99% isopropyl alcohol to clean properly
membrane keyboards can be made waterproof quite easily, mechs cannot, at best they can spray the pcb with a water repellant coating but that won't do much for long