Looks like it's time for a family computer, as the kids are driving me nuts using mine all the time - especially my son who manages to get some crappy malware on there from time to time.

So I'm thinking I'll pass along my computer and build myself a new one; my needs are still basically the same:

I find what I have now to be quite sufficient, so I could go with the modern equivalent of that. Not being at home now, I can't easily double-check what I currently have, but I believe it was this or something similar:

The only change I'd think about for the future would be stepping it up in the monitor department - the idea of being able to run two 2560 x 1440 monitors is quite appealing. Not sure what I'd need to be able to handle that. I could definitely go with on-board video for now if it would be sufficient with my current monitors, as long as I would have the ability to add a video card in the future if I go with higher resolution.

Anyone have any recommendations?

Really, what I mostly need is some suggestions for what today's "sweet spot" for processors is. Usually the very newest CPUs are several hundred dollars, and then there's a big price drop. But there's always so many different CPUs, I find it hard to identify that point when I haven't been shopping for one for some time, let alone being able to determine where non-Intel CPUs slot into the pecking order.

And then the other spot I'm looking for help on is "future-proofing" - what options/ports should I be looking for on my motherboard to set me up well to make future upgrades, especially to be able to add a video card that will handle at least 2 - 2560 x 1440 monitors?

Tom's Hardware is a decent resource for this kind of question. The CPU hierarchy chart will give you an idea of how things fit together. Pages 2-4 in that feature will give you an idea of what's good in budget/mid/high-end ranges. Obviously you don't need a hardcore gaming CPU so you can discount the top end.

They also do a decent hierarchy chart for GPUs, I believe.

I haven't built a machine for ages so am not up to speed on any of this, but you'll want to get the newest socket that works with your CPU budget-driven choice (keeping the upgrade line open for as long as possible). MB flows from that; things like decent support for USB3 etc should be on your list, but if you go for a newish socket that shouldn't be a problem.

USB3, SATA3, maybe SATAe if you feel the need. It's too early to go for DDR4 because the modules are ridiculously expensive, and it's not downward compatible. I'd go for DDR3-2133 instead.

PCIe x16 will be the standard (and to date the only choice actually) for graphics cards for quite some time. Basically any card with two or more hi-res outputs (dual link DVI, HDMI 2.0 or DisplayPort, that is) will support your two 1440p monitors. Gaming performance is a different story ofc.

Just wanted to say a quick thanks for the answers. I'm delaying this project until next month, but the answers thus far will be quite helpful then. I'll probably be back with more.

Bobo: PSU degrades over time. It's a good idea to get some "spare" capacity if you're planning to keep it for a long time.

never heard that before, citation needed

It's an issue with capacitors. I am not saying he needs to get 20% spare capacity. But if the components draw a peak of 380 watts, probably good idea to do 410, especially if you buy a cheaper brand that's using capacitors barely good enough for advertised specs.

It's really not a big issue and it will only be relevant on the margins for small % of PSUs after 5 years but considering the cost and headaches associated with PSU failures, I think it's worth it to buy that spare capacity.

Spare capacity is fine with better quality PSUs anyway because they're so efficient anymore and you don't need them running close to max at peak. The added power cost is almost negligible. If you're peaking at 380w there's no real reason you can't buy a 550 or 600w. 10 years ago yeah but now it's really nothing.

Don't blow money on a 1000w for no reason is all.

All right, never ended up doing this second upgrade last year, but am considering it again. Now it wouldn't be for a second computer - just a pure upgrade.

What I'm working with now:

So I'm wondering what an upgrade would get me. I'm thinking:

LGA 1151 (LGA 1155 now)
Better chipset, LDO
DDR4 (DDR3 now)
More SATA 6 Gb/s (have only 2 now)
USB 3.1 (have 2 x USB 3.0 now)

Am I looking at much of an improvement?

Also, would like to be able to support at least two 2 K monitors soon.

As always, any and all suggestions are welcome.


Edit to add: If nothing else, my bump brings back a Gonzirra post, who hasn't posted again since 9 days later. Maybe I should PM him and see if he'll honour my thread with his 20 K post.

No. See this

http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare...70K/3503vs1316

DDR4 v. DDR3 still sidegrade. USB3.1 doesn't have a lot of applications for now and if Apple is successful, USB 3.1 will be implemented with Type-C connectors. Better to wait it out.

Good info, thanks! One reason that I was considering it now was because after July, I'm expecting I'll need to pay for Windows 10 if I upgrade my MB, whereas before then I should be able to upgrade for free. But if I'm not gaining much, that's a poor reason to do it.

Also forgot to mention that I'd like to eventually run two 2 K monitors - should I be able to do that with my current system, or with the addition of a reasonably-priced video card? Still not much going on for me in the way of heavy-duty gaming.

I don't see any particular need to go now to get the free Win10 given your expected usage. My usage is similar (no poker, occasional older games, usually just chrome/openoffice/dvd's) and when I upgrade mine, which is due as it's about five years old now, I'm either keeping the HDD as there's nothing wrong with it (maybe cloning it onto an SSD) or switching to Linux as I have basically no applications that require M$

Think I'm going to go the cheaper route of a clean install of Windows on a new SSD.

Wouldn't mind some opinions of the viability of running two 2 K monitors on my current set up, or what I'd need for a video card if what I have already in terms of on-board video isn't sufficient.

If the board has the connections it will be fine. Otherwise even the cheapest card will do

Thanks. It has one DVI and one HDMI, so connections should be fine.

Some days I really wonder where my head was at on other days.

I'm already running two 2 K resolution monitors, and have been for years.

So I guess I was thinking more along the lines of running two 3-4 K monitors (now that I've got my brain wrapped around monitor resolution terminology) - does that change the answer to my earlier question of what I would need? IE can I run with my current config, and if not, what kind of video card should I be looking at?

Starting to feel like PaulyJames Jr. here. Please forgive me.

You will probably need a video card. There is nothing (I know of) preventing the integrated graphics from driving 4k displays other than limitations of the connections. Old HDMI connections don't work for 4k but DVI-D mostly do.

I wouldn't worry about it. Just try. If it doesn't work, buy a cheap video card or even an USB 3.0 to displayport adapter and you're gold. The refresh rate on the USB solution will be low but it works.

Also I don't know about upgrading to 4k for PCs. Windows and Windows apps just aren't quite optimized for UI scaling yet.

The thread that will never die, because I won't let it.

So, I never bothered with the upgrade previously, mostly due to advice I got ITT that it wasn't really worth it. Now as Black Friday approaches, and my system is much longer in the tooth, I think it's finally time for a significant upgrade. What I said in the OP about my use still applies, which was:

Although the second screen video is more often Netflix now.

I find that when I've had a lot of tabs open, I start getting errors on Chrome once in a while, and with a few applications open I'll get lag on iTunes once in a while - definitely feels like my system is overtaxed at times.

What I have now:

Decided I'm quite happy with the monitors I have; not feeling a pressing need to get any 4K for now.

Fine with the case, and PSU unless there's some reason I should replace a 5 year old 380 W unit. It's not like they're expensive, so I certainly have no issue doing so, but if there's no point, I'd prefer to save the extra hassle.

This is what I'm kicking around at the moment:

MSI B360-A Pro $80 USD/$114 CAD
Intel Core i5-8400 $240 USD/$290 CAD
Corsair Vengeance 16 GB 3000 MHz $125 USD/$175 CAD
Samsung 970 EVO 500 GB $117 USD/$170 CAD

$562 USD total, or ~$750 CAD - a little more than I had been thinking I might spend, but I don't mind, if I'm getting decent value for my money. Like many people, always looking for that "sweet spot" where you get the best performance before the big price jumps to the top level.

Would welcome advice both on the particular makes/models I've chosen, and especially for the specs. For example, I don't know that I need 16 GB, but it's not a lot more than 8 GB. For the CPU, it's not a lot more ($40) for the i5-8600K; not sure if it's worth it.

I think the SSD is where I'm going to see my biggest boost, and I was a little overwhelmed with the choices, but I'm getting there now. The 970 PRO is quite a bit more (+$200 CAD for 1 TB, +$80 CAD for 512 GB), and I don't think it's worth it. The other consideration is going for 1 TB for both the speed boost and the extra space. Don't really need the space, though (most of what I have over and above 500 GB is accessed rarely, so I can continue with my existing SSDs for that stuff), so it would need to be a significant speed boost.

Any thoughts would be more than welcome, as always.

Edit to add: Just had another look at the motherboard, and wondering if that's really the best fit for me. I wasn't planning on getting a separate video card, so I'm concerned with both how good the integrated video on the CPU is, and the suitability of the ports on the motherboard. I think I'd need to adapt something, as I have a pair of ASUS VP247H-P monitors with HDMI, DVI-D and D-Sub. Maybe I should be looking at something different? I see the B360-F has DVI-D & HDMI, but no USB 3.1 Gen 2; not sure if I care about that. Ugh. So. Many. Choices.

I'm in the same boat as far as having 3570K and thinking it's about time to upgrade. Not sure if it's worth for you to get 8600K, but it definitely makes sense for me. Don't know much about onboard video, I'm planning to get extreme 4 for mobo as its earlier iteration was very easy to set up, overclock CPU and set up RAM timing

the difference with evo vs pro is minimal, I had evo forever and it's an excellent choice for the price imo

Thanks, Alpha. I've been doing a lot more research tonight, and this is where I'm at now (prices in CAD):

MSI B360-A Pro $115
Intel Core i5-8600K $320
Corsair Vengeance 16 GB 2666 MHz $150
GIGABYTE GeForce GT 1030 $110
Samsung 970 EVO 500 GB $170

Looks like the 8600K will give me a ~10% boost, which seems worth $40 to me. Decided to add a cheap video card as well. Still slightly temped by the 1 TB drive, but it really seems unnecessary; if I see a real steal on one this weekend I might consider it.

If this build looks reasonable, just need to figure out if I need a new CPU cooler; currently have a Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus Direct Touch 4 Heatpipe Heatsink.

Anyone else with thoughts/suggestions about any of this?

Went ahead with the list above, and didn't get a new CPU cooler as I believe the older Hyper 212 I have should work - if anyone knows differently, please advise.

Sorry just saw this. Some random thoughts based on what you wrote.

1. The biggest bang for your buck for extending he life of your old system was adding more RAM. Lack of memory was the likeliest culprit of your chrome errors when you had many tabs running.


I don't know what was the problem with Itunes lagging, it often lags for me and drives me nuts as well, so it may not even be the hardware being bad.

Bottom line, if you still have the system and your children use, add another 8GB of RAM and it should be alright for the use profile you described.


2. In good news, the CPU bump you got was closer to 35% rather than 10%.

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compar...70K/3941vs1316

3. I am somewhat concerned about your PSU, especially since you added a GPU. PSUs do degrade over time especially if they are cheap. If at some point in the future you see your system doing strange things like one of the monitors not displaying an image or having sudden restarts, the PSU might be the culprit. I would get a 550W PSU in your place.

Since a PSU is something that you can keep through many builds, don't just buy the maximum for your current needs, buy a bit extra that will take into account potential degradation and unforeseen future needs.

4. To make sure you don't need a new CPU cooler download two programs; one called CPUID Hardware Monitor and the other Prime95 or Alternatively Aida 64. The former monitors system temperatures, the latter puts the system through a stress test to see if CPU temperatures get too high under load.

In all likelihood, your CPU should be fine. If there is a problem, it's far more likely that you need to reapply thermal paste properly again instead of getting a new CPU cooler.

I recommend SETI@home or folding@home for stress tests.

For science

Thanks! Yeah, I wasn't certain that I needed the whole upgrade, but I got rolling and decided to spoil myself. Don't really have a use for a second desktop ATM, but will keep the components for now. New case, PSU, Windows license, and maybe another 8 MB if I need a second computer.

Yeah, the 10% was 8600 vs 8600K, but it's probably closer to 5%.

The video card is pretty low power usage, but I'm definitely pushing things if there's been any degradation. Power calculators are showing me at around 300-310 W, and my PSU is 380 W.

Thanks!