Probably because the body knows it's a good idea to perform this maneuver before doing something heavy - an instinct we developed long ago. See also: taking a heavy dump --> instinctively holding your breath.

durkadurka you're less knowledgeable than you think btw. Powerlifters use belts for most of their training apart from the occasional vids of russian beasts and a freakish weightlifter called Mendes.

The ankle brace and other comparisions aren't accurate imo. The benefit of a belt is it allows you to contract your abs agaisnt something solid. You can contract harder if your abs have something to push against. It's not like a passport to just relax. To paraphase a view "it's not like your abs go to sleep when you put on a belt."

Even if there is/was a difference spine safety>>>>marginally weaker abs. Which is also why breathing out during maximal squats would be a bad idea. The increase in blood pressure and intracranial pressure safety concerns are overplayed also imo. Yeah, fair enough they will skyrocket but they aren't a huge concern as they equalise to a large degree or similiar. (i'm too lazy to hunt for proof of this)

In answer to bunnys original OP. Mark Rippetoe a popular strength coach atm gave the example of "your car breaks down at an intersection and you need to move it or be killed. You're going to take a deep breathe and heave it until its moved....Your dna is smarter than the advice of clueless PT's".

The fact of the matter is a held breath will allow you to lift more weight safer than breathing method with little risk. Who knows maybe there is something to the "your dna is smarter than..." argument.

http://www.afboard.com/library/Effec...parameters.pdf

figure 5 and table 2 explains how a belt increases activation on the ab.

figure 6 shows how a belt works to stabilize the spine.

edit: this one requries some forward thinking to relate to abdominal strength.

Oh, so it would be for increasing performance?

yea this is right i was drunk when i answered. core strength is the main reason, blood pressure changes are actually irrelevant/a negative side effect. though i feel like people do the valsalva during activities that don't necessarily require core stability,and i'd think it does something for them. or maybe just more activities require core strength than you'd think.

durka, why arent you posting in this thead anymore after you've been exposed as another clueless personal trainer?

Maybe his advice about the in and out breathing were quite good? Gives rhythm and oxygen. Good at least for people not breathing at all before it´s really necessary. But one have to take care not to breathe too often and deep, that is hyperventilate, either.

Note: personally I have taken care not to accept offers about a personal trainer. Other people may benefit though. And sometimes the other way around: bad advice for the individual. I really feel I´m the best to judge for myself in this case. I don´t want the 'torture' I have seen when a fit trainer advices a 'sofa potatoe'. And people going around the gym with the advice papers in their hands...looking miserable. No, no and no!

Because I'm right and feel no need to defend myself against people who have no clue.

No one denies this. You, and this person, have completely missed the point: long term safety. It allows you to lift more weight in emergency situations but continued holding of your breath while regularly engaging in heavy lifting will continually increase the likelihood that you'll suffer damage. The loss in power from more safe breathing practices is minimal and so minimal that it's +EV for 99.99% of all people who lift weights.

1) you denied most of the things jimmi posted earlier ITT. such as the point of a weight belt

2) there is nothing safer about releasing your breath during a lift, this is just a bare assertion, the kind of stuff you love to call people out for

3) have you ever tried breathing mid-rep doing a heavy deadlift/ squat?

1) I never denied what the point of a weight belt is.
2) There's so much proof that it's not worth my time trotting out 20 references. Spend 5 seconds on Google if you wish.
3) Yes. I've done lots of powerlifting as part of my training and I breathe out against the natural tendency to hold one's breath.

jimmi's post contradicts this.

also if i google "working out" there will be a bunch of stuff about how awesome the shake weight is and how you shouldnt squat below parallel. followed by some idiocy about how more than 60g of protein a day will damage your kidneys. i have no doubt there will be a bunch of crap agreeing with you. this proves nothing.

lets just think about it for a moment: if your natural inclination is to hold our breath, wouldnt it be logical that this is the safest lifting technique? do you really think the genes for instincts to herniate yourself got selected for?

Thats not exactly why you hold your breath when you take a dump. Its part of the defecation reflex.

That would be the naturalistic fallacy. Nihan.

We have all sorts of natural inclinations that don't work well in our modern environments.

no, that would not be the naturalistic fallacy. dunno what nihan means. will assume it was you recognising that you were saying something stupid.

do you really think lifting weights is a modern environment? lifting heavy stuff is the same as it was 2 million years ago.

this is all beside the point anyway. breathing mid-lift would be ******ed regardless of our natural inclinations. you are relaxing the core when you need its support the most. this is pretty much self evidently idiotic. combine this with the opinion of actual weight lifting experts (not personal trainer certifiers lol) and the case for you being wrong is cast iron.

durkadurka33 please post a video of yourself squatting heavy while breathing in on the way down.

By breathing in and out during a lift you are intentionally decreasing the pressure (and thus stability) in your torso. This is not good practice.

I would love to see this.

Anyway, this thread instantly devolved into the weight belt good or bad discussion and my stance on it is that weight belt + valsalva is +EV. I am way more scared of doing a heavy press and letting the barbell fall on my head because i did not have a stable core (breathing during the lift).

The best way to test this is to go for some heavy (barbell overhead) presses and try both techniques for each set. I found myself significantly less stable while breathing.

Talking about injury in the long term seems like a bad idea when i put myself at a far bigger risk of acute injury in the present day. Even then a case can be made for both sides: increased spine stability or increased blood pressure.

Breathing OUT...geebus.

reading comprehension ftl

so you breathe in on the way up? or just add lack of oxygen to your other problems?

reading comprehension ftl indeed

lol

at all, just because we do.

probably in our past there was a divergence between those who didn't and those who did. "owie, it hurts when I don't push down when I lift something heavy. maybe I should."

Having to find your spinal disks that shot out of your back has to be something of an annoyance in procreating.

Whatever...blow a blood vessel for all I care. You've been warned.