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Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts?

07-29-2017 , 07:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothSayer
You might be a big walking turd, but I consider myself stardust.
It is not a question of either/or.
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
07-29-2017 , 07:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothSayer
Yeah, I'm in Eastern Europe right now - all the insults involve one or another of your relatives being either a whore or a gypsy. But in American parlance among a certain demographic I assume it is a positive. Is the whore greater than the sum of its parts though? That's the real question.

Also, lol, trust an academic to be following the orthodoxy of being positive toward sex work. That's like one of the ten commandments of being a refined human being in academic circles. Respect for whores.
My bold.

Female gypsies by definition are whores, right.

This also reminds me of a conversation I had years ago with a scientist from Romania that I met at a conference (he was brilliant and knew 7 languages). He went into a tirade against the vile gypsies that plagued Romania (and Hungry). He thought I was ignorant and stupid for my sympathies for the Roma. It was an interesting discussion/argument that he won, hands down. He did me a great favor and reinforced the budding notion I was beginning to understand - that it is best to actually know something of what one is discussing to have a meaningful/fruitful debate.
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
07-29-2017 , 07:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeno
Turbulent recycling until entropy wins out and the heat death of the universe ends all debate. Even the f**king gypsies won't be able to eke out a meager survival.
What happens "after" heat death?

To me it seems pretty unlikely that this "thing" we call the "big bang" and the "universe" is here for the first and last time.
Why would it happen once and never again? To me it seems more logical that existence is ultimately without beginning or end.
"Eternal recurrence", if you will.
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
07-29-2017 , 08:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zamadhi
What happens "after" heat death?
That is none of your business.
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
07-29-2017 , 08:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTheMick2
That is none of your business.
What is my business?
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
07-29-2017 , 08:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zamadhi
What is my business?
Whatever floats your boat. No boats and definitely no floating after heat death, so that is out of bounds.
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
07-29-2017 , 09:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTheMick2
Whatever floats your boat. No boats and definitely no floating after heat death, so that is out of bounds.
The thing is that I'm starting to believe it's not really about floating, but about sinking.

"The fish in the sea is not thirsty"
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
07-29-2017 , 09:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zamadhi
The thing is that I'm starting to believe it's not really about floating, but about sinking.

"The fish in the sea is not thirsty"
Floating is just amateurish sinking. Sinking is just amateurish floating. Both should be left to the professionals.
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
07-29-2017 , 11:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zamadhi
The thing is that I'm starting to believe it's not really about floating, but about sinking.

"The fish in the sea is not thirsty"
I'm not sure this is true. We manage to be oxygen hungry even though we're in a sea of oxygen.
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
07-30-2017 , 05:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothSayer
I'm not sure this is true. We manage to be oxygen hungry even though we're in a sea of oxygen.
When the shoe fits the foot is forgotten
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
07-30-2017 , 09:51 AM
The above is what happens when Al Bundy discovers zen.
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
07-30-2017 , 01:48 PM
"A single piece of crooked wood makes the whole stack a crooked thing". Eastern European Proverb
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
07-30-2017 , 11:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zamadhi
What happens "after" heat death?

To me it seems pretty unlikely that this "thing" we call the "big bang" and the "universe" is here for the first and last time.
Why would it happen once and never again?
"There was never a time when the world began, because it goes round and round like a circle, and there is no place on a circle where it begins. Look at my watch, which tells the time; it goes round and round, and so the world repeats itself again and again. But just as the hour-hand of watch goes up to twelve and down to six, so too, there is day and night, waking and sleeping, living and dying, summer and winter. You can't have any of these without the other, because you wouldn't be able to know what black is unless you had seen it side-by-side with white, or white unless side-by-side with black". - Watts.

Last edited by VeeDDzz`; 07-30-2017 at 11:07 PM.
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
07-31-2017 , 10:52 AM
RGT. Nice, but RGT.
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
07-31-2017 , 03:27 PM
Oh yes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Watts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBXtLhYdnx0

You are God!



Guy doesn't make me feel better...mumbo jumbo. My atoms and physics connect me to the universe. Extrapolated there's some psychology and sociology.

Last edited by plaaynde; 07-31-2017 at 03:42 PM.
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
07-31-2017 , 04:33 PM
I am neither god nor not-god, but the one who witnesses both.
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
07-31-2017 , 04:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothSayer
Yeah, I'm in Eastern Europe right now - all the insults involve one or another of your relatives being either a whore or a gypsy. But in American parlance among a certain demographic I assume it is a positive. Is the whore greater than the sum of its parts though? That's the real question.

Also, lol, trust an academic to be following the orthodoxy of being positive toward sex work. That's like one of the ten commandments of being a refined human being in academic circles. Respect for whores.
Well, i'm not sure it's a bad thing to respect people no matter what they choose, as long as their choices don't hurt me.

Where in Eastern Europe? I was just in Estonia and St. Petersburg. I liked the former. The latter was a bit dreary.
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
07-31-2017 , 04:48 PM
Right now, Montenegro, but going wandering again shortly. Estonia is a cool place.
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
07-31-2017 , 05:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothSayer
Right now, Montenegro, but going wandering again shortly. Estonia is a cool place.
I met a guy from Montenegro who convinced me to go there someday. Was he correct? Is it worth a trip?
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
07-31-2017 , 07:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by plaaynde
RGT. Nice, but RGT.
The theology aspects of these philosophies aren't necessary. If you want to fixate on them, that's up to you.
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
07-31-2017 , 08:18 PM
This doesn't even rise to the level of philosophy. It's pure mindless verbal diarrhea that means nothing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeeDDzz`
"There was never a time when the world began, because it goes round and round like a circle, and there is no place on a circle where it begins. Look at my watch, which tells the time; it goes round and round, and so the world repeats itself again and again.
This is philosophy? "I saw a merry-go-round go round and round ergo the universe is infinite" is not a statement that gets to be called philosophy.
Quote:
But just as the hour-hand of watch goes up to twelve and down to six, so too, there is day and night, waking and sleeping, living and dying, summer and winter. You can't have any of these without the other, because you wouldn't be able to know what black is unless you had seen it side-by-side with white, or white unless side-by-side with black". - Watts.
The old "nothing exists without contrast". Not only false in the absolute, but to the extent it's true, a mindless truism.
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
07-31-2017 , 08:39 PM
In binary, what would the 1 mean without the 0?

Could you have any meaningful information without both?
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
07-31-2017 , 10:50 PM
Immortality does not exist, but mortality is still meaningful
The absence of counting does not exist, but counting is still meaningful.

The silly "philosophical" point that Watts is trying to make is that the bad must exist with the good; there must be balance and an inverse must exist to all things to delineate. But that isn't true. You don't need darkness to appreciate light; a minor difference in intensity is sufficient. You don't need pain or malaise to know that you feel ok; feeling ok is not related to malaise even though malaise is its inverse. You don't need quiet to appreciate sound; minor variations in the frequency of sounds do.

This is what I mean by this being total mind-rot nonsense that's either false or trivially true. You need perceivable variation for perception and meaning, but you don't need the inverse or anything close to it. This type of "philosophy" is the mark of the cuck/wannabe/fake philosopher. Say something profound but false with an out to something trivially true if you get called on it. The idiots will lap up what they deem as profound, and you don't totally discredit yourself because you can always all back to the truism part of your claim.
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
07-31-2017 , 11:08 PM
You appear agitated.

No one is trying to trick you. Philosophy is not trying to trick you. To my understanding I asked you a very simple question.
If it helps I'll rephrase:

In binary, does 1 have any meaning without 0?
Is the whole greater than the sum of its parts? Quote
07-31-2017 , 11:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeeDDzz`
You appear agitated.

No one is trying to trick you. Philosophy is not trying to trick you. To my understanding I asked you a very simple question.
If it helps I'll rephrase:

In binary, does 1 have any meaning without 0?
yes

11 is different than 1

"Watts put forward a worldview, drawing on Hinduism, Chinese philosophy, pantheism or panentheism, and modern science, in which he maintains that the whole universe consists of a cosmic Self playing hide-and-seek (Lila); hiding from itself (Maya) by becoming all the living and non-living things in the universe and forgetting what it really is – the upshot being that we are all IT in disguise. In this worldview, Watts asserts that our conception of ourselves as an "ego in a bag of skin," or "skin-encapsulated ego" is a myth; the entities we call the separate "things" are merely aspects or features of the whole."

Please please please, get as soon as possible away from this guy! You dont deserve this in 2017.
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