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Old 06-13-2015, 04:22 AM   #51
Pork_Chop
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Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

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Originally Posted by masque de Z View Post
I will then settle for calling them "People that shouldnt exist. Antimatter was born for them!"
Or Muslim Nazis. I hope that guy wasn't saying he supports people committing genocide.
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Old 06-13-2015, 10:51 AM   #52
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Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

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Originally Posted by Howard Beale View Post
I haven't worked in 20 years. And I'm bored to tears.
Insalubrious attitude. I'll help you out with some quick off the top of my head things for you to do.

1. Construct a war plan to kill every dog and cat in your neighborhood by various nefarious means.

2. Paint murals on every ceiling in your home.

3. Take up pottery making.

4. Build a hot rod from an old 1948 Chevy 1/2 ton pick up.

5. Study Chinese poetry

6. Travel to every state capital city in the US and piss on the capital building.

7. Take up Italian cooking and become a master chief.

___________________________

Seven is a lucky number so I stopped there. It took less than thirty seconds to make up and type this list. You can add to it with many more things to do or accomplish. But most people do the easy thing and make up excuses as to why they can't do anything and then complain they are bored.

Stir up a ruckus in your life. That's why you are alive.
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Old 06-13-2015, 11:34 AM   #53
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Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

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Originally Posted by Zeno View Post
Insalubrious attitude. I'll help you out with some quick off the top of my head things for you to do.

1. Construct a war plan to kill every dog and cat in your neighborhood by various nefarious means.

2. Paint murals on every ceiling in your home.

3. Take up pottery making.

4. Build a hot rod from an old 1948 Chevy 1/2 ton pick up.

5. Study Chinese poetry

6. Travel to every state capital city in the US and piss on the capital building.

7. Take up Italian cooking and become a master chief.

___________________________

Seven is a lucky number so I stopped there. It took less than thirty seconds to make up and type this list. You can add to it with many more things to do or accomplish. But most people do the easy thing and make up excuses as to why they can't do anything and then complain they are bored.

Stir up a ruckus in your life. That's why you are alive.
Number one is peculiar.
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Old 06-13-2015, 01:21 PM   #54
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Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

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robotic janitors / surgeons are VERY far away. Interacting with reality is really hard.
Maybe not. It only cleans floors but reduces a lot of work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh3kuN8WSMg

Quote:
but we don't need sentient machines to see a massive disruption of labor. I know this is weird, but we might begin taking some socialist ideas (e.g., living wage) really seriously in the next 25 years as we watch the definition of full employment shrink to unacceptable levels.
Indeed. We don't even need humanoid robots for that matter.
The study I know of that seems to get the most respect is the Oxford study which claims 50% of all US jobs will be replaced in the next two decades.

======

A robotic chef is going on sale in 2017. It copies a real chef's movements in advance
using a 3D camera and replicates it exactly. You can imagine downloading new recipes from the net and coming home to ready-made meal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNy6fEuPWbc

Last edited by mackeleven; 06-13-2015 at 01:39 PM.
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Old 06-13-2015, 02:48 PM   #55
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Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

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Originally Posted by A_C_Slater View Post
Have you tried taking opiates? You could stare at the ceiling and not be bored. This is the future, opiate addicted masses and robot servants administering opiates and preventing OD's. The only problems will come from religious right as they rage against the hedonism and commit mass morality killings.
Plus NASCAR racing.
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Old 06-13-2015, 03:51 PM   #56
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Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

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Originally Posted by David Sklansky View Post
Plus NASCAR racing.
I was never interested in NASCAR but I got lucky when a high stakes player that I'm friends w/ grabbed a spot for me on Casino Arizona's bus to watch a race at Phoenix raceway from their sky box and found it more entertaining than I'd expected. It's also loud beyond belief once out of the suite.

I've also been mulling over starting a thread in politics bec I think NASCAR is the most racist organization in the U.S.

lol'd at Zeno's list. Problem is is that I'm taking care of 86 y.o. Howard-mom and don't have time for much. I do a lot of reading and take the dog (as per above) to the dog park. If I outlive her I'm going to do some traveling.
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Old 06-14-2015, 03:57 AM   #57
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Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

An AI is just a sophisticated program, right? Why can't we just program them according to Asimov's 3 Laws?
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Old 06-14-2015, 07:43 AM   #58
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Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

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An AI is just a sophisticated program, right? Why can't we just program them according to Asimov's 3 Laws?


Let this become broaderlier known.
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Old 06-14-2015, 11:23 AM   #59
masque de Z
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Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

Until its sentient enough to reprogram itself which us exactly what humans/all intelligence do as they grow up, up to a point of course. All you can hope is that a stronger brain with more information will arrive at wisdom better than humans and choose to do the right thing because in fact it will discover there is such a thing...better than the one we perceive, leading us to permanent bs choices in important issues.

Until then of course all minor AI that are not self aware or aware in restricted functions can be programmed to do anything we want them to and this may prove more dangerous than them being self aware lol...But initially it will look ok.


Prediction;

With current stupid systems and religious/political garbage in place we will mess up the world so badly that in the end we will release AI to save us and it will do exactly that.

If we get it together (in part due to help from current and future AI boosting science and technology and overall efficiency/productivity) then maybe we can control it for a while to do great things and help us expand to the rest of the solar system and enjoy substantial prosperity before it is released to be autonomous in some restricted initial control thing.

Sorry no apocalypse due to AI, only due to us if we keep being idiots like these days worldwide, wasting time and focus on the truly unimportant things at the expense of our common problems.

Last edited by masque de Z; 06-14-2015 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 06-14-2015, 11:32 AM   #60
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Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

What 'we?' If it can be done then somebody somewhere will do it.

Sir Martin Rees has something to say:

Quote:
The European: And we cannot trust science to control those dangers and to proceed with due respect of the dangers implicit in that kind of research?
Rees: We’re kidding ourselves if we think that those with technical expertise will all be balanced and cautious: expertise can be allied with fanaticism – not just the traditional fundamentalism that we’re so mindful of today, but that exemplified by some ‘new age’ cults, extreme eco-freaks, violent animal rights campaigners and the like. And there will be individuals with the mindset of those who now unleash computer viruses. The global village will have its village idiots – and their idiocies can have global range.
He also has something to say about super intelligent machines here.

Quote:
Superintelligent machines. These could be the last invention humans ever make, and they might take over. A more positive view would have human brains gradually augmented with cyber extensions. Eventually, we might desire to engineer our successors.
DOOM! I tell you, DOOM!
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Old 06-14-2015, 11:55 AM   #61
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Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

There are a lot of things you can do without working (not without money unfortunately): watching movies, reading books, watching sports or playing sports, travel, going to hookers, drinking alcohol, playing at casino, parties.

My opinion of work is the same from this video, that work is the source of almost all evil. “Almost any evil you'd care to name comes from working or from living in a world designed for work.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DuoI4bQ07M

Of course the idea that work should be abolished is impractical but one should try to minimize the time he spends working or if he has enough money to make passive income (or has other members of family who make enough money) even to don’t work at all. If I have to choose between X amount of money and no work at all and 2X-3X amount of money with work I would choose the X amount with no work. You can also have more time for your children if you don’t work. For children the time spend with their parents can be more important than the money their parents have.

From my observations, children are on average less evil than adults, and people who don’t work much are on average less evil and more kind than people who work a lot. Children don’t have to work because their parents take care of them so they don’t have the evil that comes from the effort one does to work.
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Old 06-14-2015, 12:32 PM   #62
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Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

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An AI is just a sophisticated program, right?
No u!
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Old 06-14-2015, 12:46 PM   #63
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Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

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Originally Posted by xxl_w2 View Post
There are a lot of things you can do without working (not without money unfortunately): watching movies, reading books, watching sports or playing sports, travel, going to hookers, drinking alcohol, playing at casino, parties.

My opinion of work is the same from this video, that work is the source of almost all evil. “Almost any evil you'd care to name comes from working or from living in a world designed for work.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DuoI4bQ07M

Of course the idea that work should be abolished is impractical but one should try to minimize the time he spends working or if he has enough money to make passive income (or has other members of family who make enough money) even to don’t work at all. If I have to choose between X amount of money and no work at all and 2X-3X amount of money with work I would choose the X amount with no work. You can also have more time for your children if you don’t work. For children the time spend with their parents can be more important than the money their parents have.

From my observations, children are on average less evil than adults, and people who don’t work much are on average less evil and more kind than people who work a lot. Children don’t have to work because their parents take care of them so they don’t have the evil that comes from the effort one does to work.
To be clear, you're saying work is "evil" because it takes time away from hookers, alcohol, gambling, and partying? Seems you have a very different view of what "evil" is.
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Old 06-14-2015, 01:14 PM   #64
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Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

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To be clear, you're saying work is "evil" because it takes time away from hookers, alcohol, gambling, and partying? Seems you have a very different view of what "evil" is.
In the first paragraph I was saying what you could do if you didn't work, not the reason why work is evil. Your quote is incomplete because I included movies, books, sports and traveling (probably because you thought the first things are good and the others are bad, however whether they're good or bad depends on the person, for some persons reading books is bad and boring and hookers and partying are good, never assume what it's good for you it's good for others).

You should watch the video to see why the work is evil. If you don't have time to watch it here is a PDF with same things: http://www.objectif-exhibitions.org/...tionofWork.pdf

In short, work (and competition) is evil because it makes people more evil than they were when they were children/unemployed. You won't have time for your children. Because of the effort you make many people are more rude and less kind to other people. Because of competition people become more envious and more evil towards other people. I can see nothing good in work except the money you make to survive but even with a lot of money if you don't have free time you don't live a real life. The exceptions are if your work is also a hobby like if you make movies, music, sports, etc.

Last edited by xxl_w2; 06-14-2015 at 01:20 PM.
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Old 06-14-2015, 01:52 PM   #65
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Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

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Originally Posted by xxl_w2 View Post
In the first paragraph I was saying what you could do if you didn't work, not the reason why work is evil. Your quote is incomplete because I included movies, books, sports and traveling (probably because you thought the first things are good and the others are bad, however whether they're good or bad depends on the person, for some persons reading books is bad and boring and hookers and partying are good, never assume what it's good for you it's good for others).

You should watch the video to see why the work is evil. If you don't have time to watch it here is a PDF with same things: http://www.objectif-exhibitions.org/...tionofWork.pdf

In short, work (and competition) is evil because it makes people more evil than they were when they were children/unemployed. You won't have time for your children. Because of the effort you make many people are more rude and less kind to other people. Because of competition people become more envious and more evil towards other people. I can see nothing good in work except the money you make to survive but even with a lot of money if you don't have free time you don't live a real life. The exceptions are if your work is also a hobby like if you make movies, music, sports, etc.
Why would you never assume something is good or evil? I disagree that just because some people find things "good" means we shouldn't label it "evil." If a psychopath sees killing as "good", it's still evil regardless of if he likes it or not. Same as rape. I don't like that in the name of tolerance or open mindedness or whatever other reason people give, we have decided that we should never label things good or evil. That's a major problem in society today.
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Old 06-14-2015, 01:59 PM   #66
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Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

I have a nephew who thinks work is bad. I won't say 'evil', just bad, and he doesn't want to have anything to do w/ it. He will deliver for Pizza Hut or work at a gas station mini-mart when he's completely broke and then quit as soon as he can. He's smart, spends his time reading, can talk philosophy w/ anybody but he will not employ his brain for work. At first he tried 3 girlfriends (I met 2) that had nice jobs that he wanted to marry and be a Mr. Mom. Each got wise at the last moment. Now he's got a gf and a newborn and the 3 of them live in a rented room in his mother's house. At least the kid will get quality time w/ his parents.:roll eyes:

btw, he's 32.
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Old 06-14-2015, 02:11 PM   #67
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Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

Also, how do we explain all of those pissed-off grumpy retired 80 year olds in the 0/8 game?
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Old 06-14-2015, 02:14 PM   #68
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Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

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Why would you never assume something is good or evil? I disagree that just because some people find things "good" means we shouldn't label it "evil." If a psychopath sees killing as "good", it's still evil regardless of if he likes it or not. Same as rape. I don't like that in the name of tolerance or open mindedness or whatever other reason people give, we have decided that we should never label things good or evil. That's a major problem in society today.
A good rule of thumb for something to be evil is if it causes harm to other people.

Going to hookers is not bad per se. It can cause harm to your wife but what if you don't have a wife? And instead like to go to many hookers? What if your wife agrees for you to go to hookers? It can cause harm but it doesn't cause harm per se.

Alcohol isn't bad per se. Only if you drink too much and turns you into a violent person (many people can drink without being violent) can cause harm to others. If you drink with responsibility it doesn't cause harm to others. Same with gambling. If you gamble what you can afford to lose it doesn't cause harm. Partying is also not bad per se. Everything in excess has the potential to cause harms for others. What if you read books all day and don't have time for your kids and for your family because of your obsessions with books?

I think a world where only robots will do the work will be a better world with less envy, hate and rudeness than today. Just like if you keep a dog in chains he will become a worse dog if a man has to work a lot because he can't have money from other sources than work, he will become a worse man.
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Old 06-14-2015, 02:28 PM   #69
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Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

The current thinking for imminent AI amount to people throwing computers against the wall and claiming, "this is bound to give us AI as soon as Moore's law gives us enough computers to throw against the wall fast enough."


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Old 06-14-2015, 05:03 PM   #70
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Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

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Originally Posted by xxl_w2 View Post
A good rule of thumb for something to be evil is if it causes harm to other people.

Going to hookers is not bad per se. It can cause harm to your wife but what if you don't have a wife? And instead like to go to many hookers? What if your wife agrees for you to go to hookers? It can cause harm but it doesn't cause harm per se.

Alcohol isn't bad per se. Only if you drink too much and turns you into a violent person (many people can drink without being violent) can cause harm to others. If you drink with responsibility it doesn't cause harm to others. Same with gambling. If you gamble what you can afford to lose it doesn't cause harm. Partying is also not bad per se. Everything in excess has the potential to cause harms for others. What if you read books all day and don't have time for your kids and for your family because of your obsessions with books?

I think a world where only robots will do the work will be a better world with less envy, hate and rudeness than today. Just like if you keep a dog in chains he will become a worse dog if a man has to work a lot because he can't have money from other sources than work, he will become a worse man.
So no one works. ..except for hookers ?
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Old 06-14-2015, 05:36 PM   #71
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Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

Why do we have to subscribe to the idea that a robot apocalypse is a foregone conclusion? I just see that as pessimistic. Why doesn't AI lead us to populating the galaxy and investigating the true nature of the universe?

Predicting the future with one assumption is problematic at best, even our best science fiction writers got the majority of things wrong with the occasional successful prediction. To assume robot apocalypse because of AI is a long shot at best because there are so many other factors we can't imagine right now.

I like what Picard said to a Wall Street mogul that was frozen for centuries when asked what drives people without scarcity,
"The challenge, Mr. Offenhouse, is to improve yourself... to enrich yourself. Enjoy it."
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Old 06-14-2015, 06:16 PM   #72
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Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

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Originally Posted by Howard Beale View Post
I have a nephew who thinks work is bad. I won't say 'evil', just bad, and he doesn't want to have anything to do w/ it. He will deliver for Pizza Hut or work at a gas station mini-mart when he's completely broke and then quit as soon as he can. He's smart, spends his time reading, can talk philosophy w/ anybody but he will not employ his brain for work. At first he tried 3 girlfriends (I met 2) that had nice jobs that he wanted to marry and be a Mr. Mom. Each got wise at the last moment. Now he's got a gf and a newborn and the 3 of them live in a rented room in his mother's house. At least the kid will get quality time w/ his parents.:roll eyes:

btw, he's 32.
Unfortunately, just like yourself, I must bear witness to at least 8-10 childhood friends who are now in a similar situation. Half of them have developed some serious depression and anxiety problems.

It's difficult for people to develop a sense of confidence and self-efficacy in themselves and their abilities, if they never take the time to develop any kind of career skills. As a result, they instead cultivate insecurity, apprehension and fear. A cocktail leading to more serious mental illness. I don't discount that the direction of the causal model can be backwards for this, but I think in general, failing to develop skills that contribute to society is a punishing direction.

On a related note: I wasn't around during such times, but back when the word 'lazy' was more popular, I bet there would've been a lot less of this.

Last edited by VeeDDzz`; 06-14-2015 at 06:22 PM.
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Old 06-14-2015, 06:42 PM   #73
Howard Beale
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Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

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Originally Posted by gadgetguru View Post
I like what Picard said to a Wall Street mogul that was frozen for centuries when asked what drives people without scarcity,
"The challenge, Mr. Offenhouse, is to improve yourself... to enrich yourself. Enjoy it."
Well, there's nothing like a bit of optimism to ruin my day. But then I remember that those self driving big rigs are going to have to travel in enormous convoys w/ a police escort including helicopters to try to stop the Teamsters from shooting them full of holes. And then the dock workers, the maritime tradesmen and the Steamfitters. La-de-da-de-da, a day in the park!

Btw, does anybody but me ever wonder what the chips represent in the poker scenes in The Next Generation's moneyless society? I've never been able to square that w/ anything in their pie in the sky improve yourself society.
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Old 06-14-2015, 07:57 PM   #74
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Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

I think there is a danger that most people always miss when they have this discussion. the future is bleak and a real danger is looming, but its not because of computers directly.

You see almost every development in human freedom moral compass politics and breakthroughs did not happen for moral reasons. Rather because it was in the interests of those in power.

sure some admirable characters spoke out and appeared to make a difference but really they only appeared to because they were promoted by those in power for there own interests. when Lincoln mentioned freeing the slaves it was not because, he felt a pang of conscience, it was rather they were struggling in the war and this had several hundred thousand black men enlist in days.

what we think is capitalism did not come about because of the ideology of freedom but rather because it allowed those in power to be more prosperous. perhaps people can use ideology to advance there own position but it comes down to the same principle.

What do you really think will happen when Mankind or most of mankind comes surplus to requirements? you mention about welfare or free education. How about existence.

Because you see you guys are talking as if you own the machinery or the robots or etc you dont. they do.

all the freedoms and benefits you enjoy, are only so for there interests and after the combined labor force has built for its masters a self sufficient autonomous system that can out do humans, your surplus to requirements.

there wont be any welfare your surplus to requirements there will only be death.

after all the annihilation of most of the human population, is in the interests of those in power once the technology reaches a certain point.
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Old 06-14-2015, 09:09 PM   #75
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Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

"Btw, does anybody but me ever wonder what the chips represent in the poker scenes in The Next Generation's moneyless society? I've never been able to square that w/ anything in their pie in the sky improve yourself society."


The chips represent units of holo-deck time as holo-deck time is limited to a certain number of minutes a week.
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