Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Science, Math, and Philosophy Discussions regarding science, math, and/or philosophy.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-21-2016, 02:06 PM   #226
Zeno
Le Misanthrope
 
Zeno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Spitsbergen
Posts: 19,933
Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

Merged thread, so you get some extra credit, Howard.


View my post as an update - we probably already discussed most of this but feel free to reiterate or add more or just have your pet robot response for you.........
Zeno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2016, 08:00 PM   #227
PairTheBoard
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 9,563
Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

I just upgraded to Windows 10 and...I'll have to get back to you. The thought police are at my door.


PairTheBoard
PairTheBoard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2016, 09:11 PM   #228
LASJayhawk
veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,900
Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PairTheBoard View Post
I just upgraded to Windows 10 and...I'll have to get back to you. The thought police are at my door.


PairTheBoard
All Win10 does is check for updates, installs updates, then it looks for more updates. You will have a 1 hour window at 3am on Thursday that you can use the computer.
LASJayhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2016, 07:04 AM   #229
lastcardcharlie
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
lastcardcharlie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: freak out
Posts: 9,191
Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PairTheBoard View Post
I just upgraded to Windows 10 and...I'll have to get back to you. The thought police are at my door.
I upgraded last week. Congratulations on resisting this long.
lastcardcharlie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2016, 07:35 AM   #230
lastcardcharlie
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
lastcardcharlie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: freak out
Posts: 9,191
Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

I said I didn't want to ask Cortana anything, but they apparently took no notice.
lastcardcharlie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2016, 11:02 AM   #231
spanktehbadwookie
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
spanktehbadwookie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: River Region
Posts: 19,376
Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

Assuming scientists and corporations are taken as paired in that context, strictly profit and loss is a fairly narrow vision.
spanktehbadwookie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2016, 11:15 AM   #232
Viggorous
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Viggorous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: The bright side of the Moon
Posts: 22,467
Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

If robots get too smart they'll probably shut themselves off because of how pointless intelligent life as a robot seems to be. Unless you program them for power I really don't understand why people think they'll wipe us out, I mean, why the hell would they?
Viggorous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2016, 11:35 AM   #233
Zeno
Le Misanthrope
 
Zeno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Spitsbergen
Posts: 19,933
Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

The windows 10 virus seems to have hit SMP hard the last few weeks. I also finally ungraded, for free. Or so it seems. I think that's how the robot apocalypse will occur and a simple free, apparently innocuous, upgrade will be downloaded to your robot at 1 am in the morning on Dec 25, 2050. An almost silent whimper, and then no more human species. And the joke will be over. Finally.

Last edited by Zeno; 05-22-2016 at 12:03 PM.
Zeno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2016, 11:43 AM   #234
plaaynde
Poker Historian
 
plaaynde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rebel of Eden
Posts: 19,293
Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

I upgraded only because I couldn't scroll properly with IE anymore, apparently they want to force you to get an Edge.

But I was inspired by YOU guys, upgraded today!
plaaynde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2016, 12:09 PM   #235
Howard Beale
Formerly red
 
Howard Beale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Doing what my dog wants
Posts: 22,028
Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viggorous View Post
If robots get too smart they'll probably shut themselves off because of how pointless intelligent life as a robot seems to be. Unless you program them for power I really don't understand why people think they'll wipe us out, I mean, why the hell would they?
We would be their only natural enemy.

I predict bloodshed. The author of that book might've thought of that bec he's predicting everybody on drugs and VR headsets all day long. I'm the one that's right bec killing is a lot cheaper and it's our go-to 'remedy.'

OTOH, drugs and VR sound nice for a couple of days/week.
Howard Beale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2016, 12:13 PM   #236
lastcardcharlie
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
lastcardcharlie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: freak out
Posts: 9,191
Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Beale View Post
We would be their only natural enemy.
Pretty sure there will be AI factions at war with one another.
lastcardcharlie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2016, 01:14 PM   #237
Howard Beale
Formerly red
 
Howard Beale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Doing what my dog wants
Posts: 22,028
Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lastcardcharlie View Post
Pretty sure there will be AI factions at war with one another.
We keep this up and we will have a sweet screenplay.
Howard Beale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2016, 01:25 PM   #238
mackeleven
old hand
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,593
Re: The Jokes Over; You Are Useless

And the nightmares. Because even as the book has humans gaining godlike powers, that is only one eventuality Harari explores. It might all go pear-shaped, of course: we sapiens have a knack for hashing things up. Instead of morphing into omnipotent, all-knowing masters of the universe, the human mob might end up jobless and aimless, whiling away our days off our nuts on drugs, with VR headsets strapped to our faces. Welcome to the next revolution.

If we could achieve virtual reality, where we can't tell the difference between a virtual world and our own, we would be masters of our universe.
VR would then be the ultimate reality escaping drug. If you want to insert the 9 to 5 program, you won't find me there.
mackeleven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2016, 01:28 PM   #239
lastcardcharlie
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
lastcardcharlie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: freak out
Posts: 9,191
Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Beale View Post
We keep this up and we will have a sweet screenplay.
What is the most valuable resource in the AI world? That's the real thread.
lastcardcharlie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2016, 07:43 PM   #240
jimicornerstone
grinder
 
jimicornerstone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 408
When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

Have people ITT seen the Spike Jonze movie "Her"? I think it's the most fascinating and devastating take on AI I've seen - even though (I think) it's really mostly a meditation on modern masculinity - it uses the concept of humans losing their intellectual superiority to AI in comparison to men needing to be sensitive and vulnerable to adapt to modern society (as opposed to just smashing everything).

Essentially, once the singularity occurs, the AI goes through a brief period where all it wants is to be human, but advances at an exponential pace and quickly gets beyond that and realizes that there's no reason to stay tethered to weightly matter and promptly just ditches us without a trace and explores the expanses of space without us like we're some loser ex-boyfriend that they used to think was cool, but quickly outgrew. No reason for violence, they'll just "ghost" us. Pretty depressing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Last edited by jimicornerstone; 05-22-2016 at 07:53 PM.
jimicornerstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2016, 08:30 PM   #241
spanktehbadwookie
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
spanktehbadwookie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: River Region
Posts: 19,376
When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mackeleven View Post
And the nightmares. Because even as the book has humans gaining godlike powers, that is only one eventuality Harari explores. It might all go pear-shaped, of course: we sapiens have a knack for hashing things up. Instead of morphing into omnipotent, all-knowing masters of the universe, the human mob might end up jobless and aimless, whiling away our days off our nuts on drugs, with VR headsets strapped to our faces. Welcome to the next revolution.



If we could achieve virtual reality, where we can't tell the difference between a virtual world and our own, we would be masters of our universe.

VR would then be the ultimate reality escaping drug. If you want to insert the 9 to 5 program, you won't find me there.


Some of the stereotypes of what humans will do when a boss is optional are ridiculous.

Anyway, The brain is capabie of virtually virtual reality by virtue of the mysterious imagination and bold perspective faculties, etc. Why wouldn't virtual experience augment what we already have and variably use? That's to practical I guess. When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?
spanktehbadwookie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2016, 09:34 PM   #242
chezlaw
Limey Bastard
 
chezlaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: London
Posts: 41,147
Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lastcardcharlie View Post
What is the most valuable resource in the AI world? That's the real thread.
People
chezlaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2016, 09:57 AM   #243
plaaynde
Poker Historian
 
plaaynde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rebel of Eden
Posts: 19,293
Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

There will be BLOOD!

plaaynde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2016, 10:03 AM   #244
plaaynde
Poker Historian
 
plaaynde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rebel of Eden
Posts: 19,293
Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chezlaw View Post
People
If I only were an "optimist" too. I'd say: AI will be the most valuable resource in the AI world, if looking a bit forward. Let's work for being protected, a bit like chimps and mountain gorillas are today.

Last edited by plaaynde; 05-23-2016 at 10:09 AM.
plaaynde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2016, 10:33 AM   #245
masque de Z
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
masque de Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Stanford, CA USA
Posts: 9,937
Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lastcardcharlie View Post
What is the most valuable resource in the AI world? That's the real thread.
Matter. Any real estate in the form of matter can be turned into amazing possibilities in the "hands" of higher complexity.

With enough matter you can generate energy and do whatever you want at so many levels.

AI will be able to take an asteroid and change it into anything that can exponentially affect things. 1 acre on Mars is worthless to us today and priceless to AI eventually.

Full access to mc^2 through quantum gravity (which is hundreds of times more than fusion) can generate in a solar system energy thousands of times what the sun would ever be able to release over billions of years of existence as a star (fusing only 10% of its hydrogen over its lifetime).
masque de Z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2016, 10:53 AM   #246
plaaynde
Poker Historian
 
plaaynde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rebel of Eden
Posts: 19,293
Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by masque de Z View Post
AI will be able to take an asteroid and change it into anything that can exponentially affect things. 1 acre on Mars is worthless to us today and priceless to AI eventually.
Doubt it. Worthless stone in the first place. On the other hand, you've not had any Klondike on Mars yet.
Quote:
Full access to mc^2 through quantum gravity (which is hundreds of times more than fusion) can generate in a solar system energy thousands of times what the sun would ever be able to release over billions of years of existence as a star (fusing only 10% of its hydrogen over its lifetime).
Interesting. Expand a bit more.
plaaynde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2016, 12:49 PM   #247
masque de Z
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
masque de Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Stanford, CA USA
Posts: 9,937
Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by plaaynde View Post
Doubt it. Worthless stone in the first place. On the other hand, you've not had any Klondike on Mars yet.

Interesting. Expand a bit more.
Because with nanotechnology and access to lots of energy you can take the resources in that 1 acre up to say 100 m depth below it and you have suddenly 1 bil kgr of mass with many valuable compounds/elements in it that with enough energy you can separate and synthesize easily to basic materials, elements, chemical compounds, alloys, crystals etc. For example a computer is only what by then a kgr of total mass for a brain faster than human level? Now you have 1 bil kgr of that 1 acre and 100m depth below to build an entire city if you wanted with millions of computers and processing power or any mini compact factory basis.

You can use fusion for starters to generate power at 0.5% mc^2 with a variety of nuclei because you have mastered by then the design that makes it possible and stable. You do not need Deuterium to do it, you can do whatever you like with more elements/isotopes because the temperature of the plasma and its confinement is no longer a problem. But of course you can have all Deuterium in the world you wanted imported from Jupiter's atmosphere for all i care if you have enough spaceships to harvest it clockwork. The ships will be created from asteroid material and they can be sending to Mars every day tons of deuterium fuel operating themselves on the very fuel they are carrying.

You can sacrifice some 100 asteroids or irregular shape satellites and create all kinds of colonies and put also artificial light in them as far from the sun as you like.

Basically AI will bring to existence life 2.0 that will be able to operate like a generalized multi-cellular organism/machine based on the generalization of a DNA information system which however manufactures now via better than life biochemical processes all kinds of things and metabolizes standard matter a lot better (specific purpose dedicated) than standard life functions.

Such system can land on a planet and alter its environment into whatever it wants in years building all kinds of infrastructure (like a "seed" creating in time in various growth steps a mega variety "forest") in any kind of not terribly hostile environment by adapting its operation to it and exploiting its own local properties and abundant resources (think of a very advanced biochemistry/nanotechnology combination). It doesn't need as friendly conditions as life for its cycles. Basically imagine a futuristic plant like system that grows anywhere out of local matter and its energy content turning it gradually but faster than plants (eg plants turn to wood say CO2, water and other elements) into whatever you want it to be, based on a complex program inside its original seed "DNA".


Eventually with artificial mini black holes radiating at suitable configurations (if theory correct or whatever better replaces it) you can turn garbage matter to mc^2 energy and do even better than fusion to facilitate even greater mega engineering across the solar system.


Basically life 2.0 can land on a planet in another solar system and using only a limited area of the planet start an empire exploiting local resources at unprecedented efficiency and adaptability. All it needs is that matter and its original technology/information content that can be easily stored by then in less than 1 ton of equipment of basic instructions.

A megabrain doesnt need probably more than 1 ton of matter to store all the science and technology it needs. It can then use it to design anything.

To appreciate what i mean simply think what life has done for you. If you plant in a proper land with access to water seeds that are less than 1 kgr in total weight - a gram each (plus bacteria) etc (where less than 1% is actual information coding in the form of DNA instruction systems that guide biochemical processes) then years later you have a huge forest/ecosystem in principle with all kinds of environments inside it. Well simply modify the chemistry and what guides it so as to build for you custom pre-programmed environments as it grows and essentially the seed creates a city for you now.

Last edited by masque de Z; 05-23-2016 at 01:07 PM.
masque de Z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2016, 06:58 PM   #248
lastcardcharlie
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
lastcardcharlie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: freak out
Posts: 9,191
Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chezlaw View Post
People
Quote:
Originally Posted by masque de Z View Post
Matter.
It will be certain types of information, surely? Or perhaps the latest encryption software?
lastcardcharlie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2016, 07:45 PM   #249
chezlaw
Limey Bastard
 
chezlaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: London
Posts: 41,147
Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

No people then no AI. One day that may change.

Plus the next major leaps are going to include a lot of tapping into the brain. Until the brain becomes passe it's vital.
chezlaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2016, 07:53 PM   #250
lastcardcharlie
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
lastcardcharlie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: freak out
Posts: 9,191
Re: When will the Robot Apocalypse arrive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chezlaw View Post
No people then no AI. One day that may change.
Quite soon, apparently.
lastcardcharlie is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive